6.5-284 or 257 Weatherby???

[huntem]

Greetings to all,

Looking to build a smaller caliber long range hunting rifle. I have debated on the long versus short action. I'd like some food for thought on the two calibers from ballistics, availability of quality HUNTING bullets, and first hand experiences. I need to *hit or get off the pot.

Thanks in advance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Fiftydriver]

Huntem,

These are two very different rounds that you are comparing. The 6.5mm-284 makes its living with long barrel life, easy loading and pushing high BC bullets to moderate but solid velocities.

The 257 Wby, with traditional bullets uses a bit more raw horsepower to muscle bullets from 100 to 120 gr out at high to hyper velocity. Barrel life is shorter but it properly cared for, nothing to worry much about.

If your going with a custom rifle, here is another twist on the 257 front. Richard Graves has designed several different heavy for caliber 257 bullets that are performing extremely well. They range from the standard 100-120 gr bullets up to the 130, 142, 145 and the huge 156 gr ULD RBBTs.

FOr your needs the 120 and 130s may be the best options. I only bring this up because these bullets bring the 1/4 rounds up where they should be in performance with the 6.5mm bullets.

If your looking for an easy to load round though I would look at the 25-284 or the 6.5-284. Both are basically ballistic twins when using bullets of equal BC value.

I would personally go with a 25-284 or a 25 WSM before the Wby but that is just me personally.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[curtis]

Do these heavier bullets made by Richard Graves work well in the .25-06, or are they designed only for the suped up .25s?

 

[Fiftydriver]

I have heard reports that the 130 gr FBHP bullets are working well in the 25-06. The 100 to 120 gr will work fine in most 1-10 twist barrels. Some of course will not like the longer bullets. Richard makes two versions, one on a J-4 Jacket and one on a heavier jacket designed for the big 257s like my Allen Mag, I would say the lighter jacket would perform best in the 25-06.

That said, Richard has been having some problems with the J-4 Jackets here lately so I do not know the status of that jacket option. Seems they are making the jackets to hard which causes some serious problems inthe forming process.

Drop him a line at [email protected]

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[brianwinzor]

Knappy,

About 6 weeks ago I tested and chronographed Richard's 130 BCFBHP and 142 grain ULD in my custom 25/06AI, which has a Sako L61R action, and Shilen SS 24 inch 1 in 10 twist barrel.

The 130 grain Wildcat achieved many sub 0.5 moa 3 shot groups, at velocities ranging from 2850 to 3150 fps. The best group measured .185 moa using 65.0/H870, and on first showing, these bullets seemed to deliver similar accuracy to the Nosler 115 BT.

The 142 grain ULD achieved 3050 fps, but failed to stabilise, which was no surprise to me considering their length of 1.365 inches, although Richard has one client who surprisingly reported they shot well in his 25/06.

I have since ordered some more 130 grain bullets, and any of my future 25 cal rifles will have at least a 1 in 8 twist barrel, so that I have the flexibility to use bullets of 130 grains or more.

Over the coming months I hope to use the 130 grain BCFBHP's in the field (in Oz), and will report back then how they performed. Hope the above helps. Brian.

 

[Guest]

Back to the original question...

I agree these calibers are "apple and oranges"

First identify your intended targets.. you say small caliber long range hunting .. but for what? Chucks and deer are apples and oranges too... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

257 weatherby... bad on barrels .. real bad... and quarter caliber premium bullets aren't as readily available and have a smaller selection...

6.5/284... now you have a very versitle caliber... because of the popularity the bullets selection is getting very good...

here's the kicker you mentioned long action vs short action.. you really have chosen 2 LA calibers...

you can howver, go to a WSM case and get away with a SA

 

[huntem]

I have recently returned from a successful bear hunt and while I was making the 18 hour drive home I was thinking of my next hunt. I have had a really bad itch to shoot an antelope. With that said, I am looking for a weak excuse to acquire another rifle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif (Like my .270, 7mm WSM, or .300 Ultra wouldn't do the job)

I have 2 Rem 700 rifles that I could use as donor rifles for the action but they really aren't the best choice. The LA is a Rem Titanium chambered in .270 win and the other SA is a Rem 700 Light Varmint chambered in .22-250. Both have blind magazines.

Maybe I made a terrible assumption that I could use the SA .22-250 action and rebarrel for the 6.5-284. The case diameter is the same @.473". Now the OAL is a big difference at 1.912" .22-250 versus 2.170" 6.5-284.

While I am an avid shooter and hunter of your standard caliber, this rebarreling and such is fairly new to me.

 

[Buffalobob]

Well, I guess somebody has to speak up for the 257 Wby.

This is the fastest of the factory cartridges in 25. It has held that distinction for over half a century and will most likely continue for a long time. It will roll a 120 gr bullet out the barrel at 3200-3300fps with very little effort. This will carry 1000# of energy to about 600 yds. If you are comfortable with the gun and put a little extra powder in the case and a little extra barrel length you can stretch it further. With smaller weight bullets the velocities get to be close to 4000 fps. Weatherby introduced the general American shooting public to the concept of high velocity and part of this is by providing an ample amount of freebore. Kirby discusses freebore in another post within the last few day. Freebore does a couple of things. It allows you to get high velocity by jumping the bullet down the barrel. This jump also help some of us who get a little sloppy with our reloading because it buffers our over pressure mistakes. This extra velocity comes at a price of accuracy because best accuracy is usually accomplished by having the bullet close to the lands with very little if any jump. Secondly, some designs of bullets with a short bearing surface may not survive the jump to the lands still lined up with the bore. Strangely enough very light flat based hollow points will usually do all right. Very acceptable hunting accuracy ( say 0.5- 1.0 MOA) is not difficult to achieve with the Wby family of cartridges. Every reloading manual list the cartridge and loads. Fed 215 primers and IMR 4350 are pretty basic places to start.

I have only about one year(long ago) of experience reloading the 257 Wby and have dealt with the 25-06 a lot more. The 100 gr Nosler partitions work fine on big mule deer and antelope (I was using a 25-06). Nosler now has a 110 gr accubond out with a good BC and it has a good length of bearing surface to jump down the freebore. I would believe it would work well. If it was me and I was doing a new barrel I would go with a faster twist. (Actually if it was me doing a custom gun in 25 I would just get the 257 AM and be done with it, on the other hand the 25-06 is one fine cartridge and it is easy to live with and is more on the order of the 6.5-284, but it is not what you asked about)

I have two custom guns in Wby cartridges and both of them have a standard factory chamber. This is something you will have to decide on. Reducing free bore means that you are going to swap some amount of speed for some amount of accuracy. Shooting deer and antelope you have a fairly large target area to shoot at and will be allright with the standard chamber. If you are shooting fleas off a prairie dog's ear at a mile then you will need all the accuracy you can get and might reduce the freebore. While you will not see many 257 Wby at 100 yd bench rest matches, once you get out to the 1000 yd range the 6.5-300Wby, 7-300Wby and 300Wby have been and are used with good results. There is nothing wrong with belted magnums and double radius shoulders. They have been around for a long time and work fine.

A lot of people want their barrels to last a long time and that is fine, because it is their choice. I pretty much prefer lots of powder and blazing speed. That is why I shoot Wby cartridges. It is also why my cars have engines in them that require premium gas. I spent most of today shooting a 7mmWby and a 240 Wby. Like the 257 Wby, the 240Wby still is king of the hill for factory cartridges in its caliber. The 7mm has been superseded by the STW and RUM, Roy jr. needs to neck down the 378 one more notch!

I guess I am not the voice of great experience that you asked for with a 257 Wby but I like the Wby family of cartridges.

 

[Guest]

Huntem....

we if you really want to get the most out of your 6.5/284 you really need to build it on a LA especially if you plan to hunt with it...

your titanium LA will do the trick quite nicely...

the SA are a bit limiting with the 6.5 bullets unless you keep them under 120 grs....

I have a 260 on the way... and I plan to do some real discovery work with it... it flat out shoots my beloved 308 on paper ( ballistically ) but we'll see what it does with deer and speedgoats...

if ya e-mail Chris he can go into much more detail than I can with your options....but you have 2 actions that have numerous possibilities...

Ask Chris about the 223 WSSM and the 90 gr SMK's hehehe.. I want one..!!! deadly to 500!!!!!

 

[Fiftydriver]

Ric,

To bad that huge 90 gr SMK is designed for 223 velocities as are all other conventional comercial VLD bullets.

When will Sierra give us a high BC bullet that will handle the big rounds that these bullet weights scream for.

On that note, look for some interesting things coming out of the Allen Precision Shooting/Wildcat Bullets team after I get my 338 Allen Mag up and running /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[huntem]

[ QUOTE ]
Huntem....

we if you really want to get the most out of your 6.5/284 you really need to build it on a LA especially if you plan to hunt with it...



[/ QUOTE ]
Ric, I guess the LA will provide the longer OAL magazine. Is this the reason for the LA recommendation? Forgive, I'm not sure which Chris you are referring too.

Thanks again,

 

[Guest]

Yup.. LA and OAL for the longer "heavies" in the 6.5 bullets....

Chris Matthews
[email protected]