5,000 fps coyote rifle?

[22250imp]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

google 22 eargesplitten loudenboomer

 

[Speyrod]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

OK I can get 4700 with a 55grn Nosler Varmageddon out of my 243. flat to 300 yards Yote crusher. Not sure how long the barrel will last.

 

[dk17hmr]

Nosler lists a 22/250AI load with a 35gr at 4760fps.

A 6-6.5 PRC with 55gr bullets might be interesting to.

 

[Alibiiv]

Ackley's book has a load for a 220 swift at 4665 FPS

I'm not interested in building a rifle that will reach or top 5000fps, however I enjoy reading a thread such as this one; there's lot of information to be gleaned from it. I don't understand the logic behind building such a barrel burning "rocket launcher"; however I do understand the logic behind, "Just because I want one!!" I am curious if what sturner has written here will fit/fill the bill for what the OP really wants to do. Shouldn't this cartridge/velocity/trajectory meet the distance requirements that the OP is looking for out to 500 yards without breaking the bank or wiping out a barrel even before one gets started????? Not to mention the bullet/s falling apart issue! If I were looking to find the right bullet to work in such a rifle I think that I would be talking with the folks at "Hammer" before I even started such a project; also J E Custom makes some very good points, and.....I find his input to be "spot on" when he posts something.

 

[AggieHunter]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

I have had a 22-243 Ack Imp rifle built for me several years ago for yote and hog hunting in Mexico. I shoot a 65 grain 22 cal Sierra GameKing Bullet at 3840 FPS using 49 grains of 7828ssc. I have shot those boys out to 450 yards w/a relatively short barrel w/1 shot kills. I have also shot audads in the chest w 1 shot kills. That rifle can shoot 5 bullets inside of a dime at 100 yards. It is my most fun rifle.

 

[maximini14 223]

I got 4100fps with a 55 gr nosler bt from a 24" barrel ruger m77 in 6mm rem....

 

[codyadams]

OK I can get 4700 with a 55grn Nosler Varmageddon out of my 243. flat to 300 yards Yote crusher. Not sure how long the barrel will last.

No you can't. Nosler data shows a max velocity of 3993 fps with a .243 and the 55 grain bullet. My father loaded them up to just under 4100 in a 6mm. You are not getting over 700 fps faster than published data says for it. You may be getting 3700, but your not getting 4700.

 

[codyadams]

Nosler lists a 22/250AI load with a 35gr at 4760fps.

A 6-6.5 PRC with 55gr bullets might be interesting to.

That is getting close, and I just looked at their data too.....I wonder if Hammer could make a 35 grain 22 cal, and load it up in a 22-284? Not sure if that would gain 250 fps....Hammer bullets tend to fly a little faster, plus HBN coating, could add maybe 50-75 fps...possibly....put it at 4810-4835, plus the extra capacity of the .284 case, and their data is in a 26" barrel too....up that to 28"......maybe....

 

[TX Badger]

Cody, is max speed or mpbr more important here? I'd have to run numbers, but does velocity always trump bc? Or at some point does more bc/retained velocity win out for mpbr? Pardon my ignorance I've never messed with small caliber hiper velocity cartridges.

 

[cohunt]

As noted before-- but here are some specifics of the 22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer not to be confused with steppenwolfs earsplittenloudenboomer song. This humorously named cartridge was developed in the 1960s by P.O. Ackley for Bob Hutton of Guns & Ammo magazine, and was intended solely to exceed 5,000 ft/s muzzle velocity. Ackley's loads only managed 4,600 ft/s, firing a 50-grain 22 caliber bullet.
Parent case: .378 Weatherby Magnum

 

[codyadams]

Just an observation - HBN or Moly coating will actually Slow down the projectile due to less pressure. Typically with coated bullets, you have to use more powder to obtain same speeds as Non-Coated bullets.

It slows it down with the same powder charge. I have used HBN quite a bit, I got that song and dance down overall I have seen 25-75 fps increase with HBN bullets, I don't use it for the velocity, I use it for other factors.

 

[J E Custom]

Another thing I found was that even the mono metal bullets have problems at ultra high velocities/RPM because of the center of gravity even in the best of bullets Is never perfect and at the RPM they turn (Around 400,000 RPM)if you could make a bullet perfectly balanced It would have to be a solid shape (No hollow points) and that would render it useless for hunting. I consider 3800 to 4200 ft/sec to be blazing fast and more than enough to do anything that is needed.

My experiments were to see if there were any limiting factors in the pursuit of velocity, and at some point the problems out weigh the results in my opinion. I am fortunate to be able to experiment with/build my own rifles and then able to adjust or even re chamber to save the rifle and expense. My labor is free if it is something that I want to try on my rifles.

In my days, as a builder and a shooter, I have fallen into the high pressure trap and also the high velocity trap and have learned my lessons the hard way. Now I look for optimum velocity and maximum accuracy, I know that there are always compromises
But Zero problems and maximum fun is the order of the day now.

Again, Just my opinion based on my testing.

J E CUSTOM

 

[lyotehunter]

a friend of mine had a caliber that he shot 5000 FPS. but it was only a 12 caliber. he like messing around with small calibers.

 

[codyadams]

Cody, is max speed or mpbr more important here? I'd have to run numbers, but does velocity always trump bc? Or at some point does more bc/retained velocity win out for mpbr? Pardon my ignorance I've never messed with small caliber hiper velocity cartridges.

I have ran quite a few ballistics with different bullets, and for flat out flat trajectory inside 500, velocity trumps bc. Of course, if you could get a .200 bc bullet and a .500 bc bullet both going 4500 fps, the higher bc bullet would be slightly flatter, but what your fighting here is time of flight at these closer (sub 500) ranges, because trajectory happens no matter what. If I was wanting a 400-800 yard coyote gun, this wouldn't even be a consideration, I would be looking at a 7 or 8 twist to shoot the heavy 22 cals, but for aim and shoot without thinking, velocity is what is needed. It of course has it's limits, as previously stated, but I'm hoping it would be possible to extend those limits as far as possible. With coyotes, energy isn't that much of a consideration since they are smaller critters, more just putting a bullet on target, and wind drift inside 500 isn't a terribly big consideration unless it is really whipping.