338 Marlin Express-Lever Action
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SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Yikes +2.
HD lives on advertising and the chrisma of an 'American Icon'. Nothing more and a whole lot less.
The plant in York is nothing mord than a refurbished WW II armored vehicle plant with old technology to boot.
HD lives on advertising and the chrisma of an 'American Icon'. Nothing more and a whole lot less.
The plant in York is nothing mord than a refurbished WW II armored vehicle plant with old technology to boot.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I think the York PA plant is purely an assembly plant, and also a weldment plant. Never been in that one, so what I say here is purely here say. Weldment areas tend to be dirty even when doing nothing but MIG and TIG.
The engine assembly areas were relatively clean for what they were, but also kinda "UN" engineered. About like what we'd be doing in a garage workshop. Every operation was done by hand with no serious gauging processes to ensure good quality controll (the exception being the fly wheels to pin alignment, and even that could have been far better). The folks in there worked very steady and there seemed to be no wasted time. But could have been better. When I took him thru an area that was put together in 1982 (assembly) he was stunned. How much easier and faster the processes were for setting clearences and alignments just blew him away. The assembler just put the rotating pack inside a case and a machine made a series of measurments, and he then added the spec'd shim packs for the bearings. Takes about three minutes. I did take him for a VERY swift walk thru of one our many gear cutting areas and he said it was a lightyear better than anything he'd ever seen. He asked me about talorences and involute profile accuracey. I was vague for a reason. But I did tell him we were cutting gears at less than .001" run out. He wanted to see the heat treat areas, but that was too closely guarded. (he was within 25 feet of a couple and didn't recognize them). He did ask me how pinion gears we cut in one cell a day, and I told him a little under 900 a shift. Or close to 1.8 gears a minute finished. Actually much more than that as you rarely had five hobs running at the sametime) I wouldn't let him close to any of the final finishing for our gears, and never allow him to see a cutter.
I did show him an electron beam welder, and he watched it welding hubs (about 6" in diameter to a hydroformed housing.) Took about 36 seconds total, and the actual weld was about 16 seconds. He questioned the quality of the weld (about a half inch wide and 80% penetration) and I showed him several we cut apart for inspection (daily). But the real kicker was when he asked me why we recut the welded area. I told him it was to make everything balance better and to take the last bit of error out of the part for assembly. Another thing that got him was that there were two operators on the machine. One guy loading parts about forty feet up the line and another guy unloading parts and sending them to a Warner Swasey CNC lathe that had no operator close by. The machine some how or another knew if the weld was bad and would automaticly kick it out into a scap tub (never figured that part out). We ran that machine two shifts a day, and performed maintaince on it on the third. What I didn't tell him was this single machine was the most expensive piece of equipment to maintain in the division and probably the entire corporation ($350K a year).
Like I said they came back to have another look see, and actually called us several other times with questions on equipment.
gary
I needed to pick up some supplies and noticed a gun shop I hadn't been into. I noticed they had 5 or 6 new Marlin 45-70's to I asked to see one. The guy behind the counter grabbed one, then stopped and put it back and said "lets try another one". I asked what was wrong with the first one? He said "the rear sight fell off".
Anyway, it was slow so he showed me all of them. They weren't to bad, if you don't consider the rear sight falling off one "not to bad". Fit was decent. I could see some daylight between the stock and receiver (about .005" or a little more) but it wasn't bad. The action was O.K. They'll smooth out over time. The triggers on all of them were consistently decent. By decent, I mean none of them in any way emulated the "4-stage creep show act alike" that came on my MXLR. They all felt like they broke at 5 or 6 lbs with no creep. The satin finish was decent and consistent on all of them and the blueing was good. There were no obvious flaws such as barrel droop, misaligned sight, so on and on and on and on.
All in all, I wasn't appalled. Of course the window dressing means nothing if it doesn't shoot well. They didn't offer to let me do that.
Are they still automatically shipping shims with each rifle to level the scope for when they ship barrels & receivers that aren't in alignment?
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
that I don't know. I did have to shim a Marlin 39M a few years back with some plastic shim stock as the scope ran out of travel. Ended up be good old Leupold quality controll in the end
gary
LongRangeLapua
Active Member
I must be a lucky one then, I bought a 1895GBL .45-70 back in June, and I have had absolutely zero problems with mine. It cycles well, and it shoots my handloads good, although i have never put it on the rest to see how good, but I can get sub-MOA offhand at 75 with it.
Can't tell you what good news that is. That's mighty good shoot'in.
LongRangeLapua
Active Member
Here is off hand at 120...
Those were Factory Winchester 300grs
Those were Factory Winchester 300grs
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
From Gary......
"I think the York PA plant is purely an assembly plant, and also a weldment plant. Never been in that one, so what I say here is purely here say. Weldment areas tend to be dirty even when doing nothing but MIG and TIG."
I've been through the plant(s) as a supplier a couple times as well as a puplic visitor (non-production) as well as the Milwaukee plant a few times, the folks I worked for were invited to bid on materials supply. I still work for them but in a non sales supply capacity BTW. We weren't successful bidders, probably because of th quantities involvd. My employer is a big hitter tonnage wise.
It's been a while but the York plant when I was there was engaged in small part machining and assembly of certain models. Milwaukee did the engines and assembly as well. The machinery was old and well used IMO, but then, nothing about a Harley is cutting edge technology.
I heard they were having labor issues a while back but I guess thats been resolved. I think they are AF of LCIO, but I could be wrong. I know they aren't USWA
"I think the York PA plant is purely an assembly plant, and also a weldment plant. Never been in that one, so what I say here is purely here say. Weldment areas tend to be dirty even when doing nothing but MIG and TIG."
I've been through the plant(s) as a supplier a couple times as well as a puplic visitor (non-production) as well as the Milwaukee plant a few times, the folks I worked for were invited to bid on materials supply. I still work for them but in a non sales supply capacity BTW. We weren't successful bidders, probably because of th quantities involvd. My employer is a big hitter tonnage wise.
It's been a while but the York plant when I was there was engaged in small part machining and assembly of certain models. Milwaukee did the engines and assembly as well. The machinery was old and well used IMO, but then, nothing about a Harley is cutting edge technology.
I heard they were having labor issues a while back but I guess thats been resolved. I think they are AF of LCIO, but I could be wrong. I know they aren't USWA
Here is off hand at 120...
Those were Factory Winchester 300grs
Nice shoot'in. Those lever actions come up nice for off hand.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I know that at onetime they were seriously looking at retooling the two Cross Transfers to cut engine cases in kind of a mirror image operation (halves are not true mirror image). What they are doing now, I can't say. I've also been inside the Honda plant in Ohio where they make Gold Wings, and I wouldn't brag about their technology either. Much more modern than Harley, but still dated. If you want to see serious equipment in use, then get a tour of CAT over near Peoria IL. I maybe wrong but I don't think Harley is organized. Perhaps Briggs & Stratten? To be exact I don't think I've ever been in an organized plant in Wisconsin with one exception, and I've been in a lot of them up there. The Honda plant is a UAW plant.
gary
etisll40
Well-Known Member
Cereberus is a typical inv firm. When they bought Marlin they moved production to ny they didn't bring Marlin employees. Not even 1 I heard. Buy one with the JM stamp.
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Gary...
I believe Honda pulled the motorcycle line out of Marysville, Ohio and it went back to Japan. Not at all sure Honda is Marysville is union. I believe they voted on representation at one time, long ago but I don't think it went through.
HD is union at both plants because a year or so ago, they were talking about a strike.
Finally, Cat may have the equipment and technology but they sure aren't turning out a good product or at least don't want to stand behind it, but then, they are union too (not that, that is all bad but it does seem to be a parallel of sorts....). Back in the day, a Cat was the engine to have but they became unreliable, fuel guzzlers and expensive to maintain.
You'll find that Cummins Engine Company has become the force to be reckoned with in Tier 3-4 engine technology. Cummins is rapidly advancing their multi-torque platform in conventional and non-conventional fuels.
I still haven't gotten any opinions, pro or con on a Henry Lever Action. Sure are pretty handsome rifles. I have a hankering for one but I don't want issues either.
I believe Honda pulled the motorcycle line out of Marysville, Ohio and it went back to Japan. Not at all sure Honda is Marysville is union. I believe they voted on representation at one time, long ago but I don't think it went through.
HD is union at both plants because a year or so ago, they were talking about a strike.
Finally, Cat may have the equipment and technology but they sure aren't turning out a good product or at least don't want to stand behind it, but then, they are union too (not that, that is all bad but it does seem to be a parallel of sorts....). Back in the day, a Cat was the engine to have but they became unreliable, fuel guzzlers and expensive to maintain.
You'll find that Cummins Engine Company has become the force to be reckoned with in Tier 3-4 engine technology. Cummins is rapidly advancing their multi-torque platform in conventional and non-conventional fuels.
I still haven't gotten any opinions, pro or con on a Henry Lever Action. Sure are pretty handsome rifles. I have a hankering for one but I don't want issues either.
