338-06 A square vs 338-06 AI

[Randy Tidwell]

Here is an interesting writeup about the Gibbs rounds, love them.

 

[Alibiiv]

Howdy all, I have a rem 700 long action and a 1-10" twist 338 blank I'm planning on getting put together before this fall. Jus curious what some of your thoughts/ideas regarding which to go with… resizing A square from 30-06 brass just seems easier. Any benefits of the AI that would come into play on a hunting rifle that would realistically see under 40 shots a year?

Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks

I read your post and that you are considering a chambering in .338 caliber that is going to be shot at a realistic 40 rounds per year for hunting. It seems that either chambering is going to be close in performance, so...performance does not matter as much as availability of brass? I like the ballistics of the .338-06 Ackley Improved. I have 35 Whelens that we hunt with, essentially the cartridges are the same, only without the streamlined bullet selection. The April edition of Handloader magazine has an excellent article on the .338-06AI, if you can get your hands on a copy it is a good read. With all this said, when I consider a chambering for a rifle whether it be for a standard SAAMI cartridge or a wildcat, my "biggest" consideration is the availability of the brass, and....then the cost of the brass!!! I've been around enough to have witnessed and still witness today where the "new" designer cartridges of today fall out of favor with the gun manufacturers and all of a sudden, and without any notice whatsoever, the brass ends up on the "NOT AVAILABLE" list never to be seen again, or......there will be a short run of that brass and we're at $4-5.00 a piece for the brass and then gone again for who knows how long. If I were doing the project that you are asking about I would be looking at the .338-06 AI for the reasons that I have listed here. Good luck with your build, they are always fun projects to do.

 

[baldhunter]

Here is an interesting writeup about the Gibbs rounds, love them.

It's a shame the Gibbs rounds were not chambered in factory rifles.With powders we have today,it's even better than ever.

 

[Randy Tidwell]

I read your post and that you are considering a chambering in .338 caliber that is going to be shot at a realistic 40 rounds per year for hunting. It seems that either chambering is going to be close in performance, so...performance does not matter as much as availability of brass? I like the ballistics of the .338-06 Ackley Improved. I have 35 Whelens that we hunt with, essentially the cartridges are the same, only without the streamlined bullet selection. The April edition of Handloader magazine has an excellent article on the .338-06AI, if you can get your hands on a copy it is a good read. With all this said, when I consider a chambering for a rifle whether it be for a standard SAAMI cartridge or a wildcat, my "biggest" consideration is the availability of the brass, and....then the cost of the brass!!! I've been around enough to have witnessed and still witness today where the "new" designer cartridges of today fall out of favor with the gun manufacturers and all of a sudden, and without any notice whatsoever, the brass ends up on the "NOT AVAILABLE" list never to be seen again, or......there will be a short run of that brass and we're at $4-5.00 a piece for the brass and then gone again for who knows how long. If I were doing the project that you are asking about I would be looking at the .338-06 AI for the reasons that I have listed here. Good luck with your build, they are always fun projects to do.

When considering a new build, brass is one of the first things I look at. For a long time, my policy was is Lapua does not make a brass that can be formed into the round I'm considering, its off the table. Now we have a few more quality brass manufactures to choose from. But it still has to be based on a common case.

Prime example is the all the WSM cases, great design, garbage brass.

JMHO

 

[duckklr]

A bit of a tangent here but last year I bought two old (one is a four digit and the other is a five digit) Rem 700's with shot-out barrels. Both were .270 Wins and I had both bored-out, re-rifled and chambered, one in 8mm-06 and the other in 35 Whelen (.358). Took about 8 months but was worth it. Both shoot great and brass reforming is simple. I use virgin military WWll and Korean War brass (after pulling bullets) and anneal with a propane torch and a slow drill/socket set-up. The 30-06 is a great place to start for many calibers with the same bass/head dimensions be they both larger or smaller (calibers).

 

[Cornbinder57]

I have both calibers, my 338-06 is running 200 grain E-tip at 2675FPS sub 1/2", and my 338-06 AI is running same bullet at 2925 fps, sub 1/2". Both out of 24" barrels. 338-06 is factory Weatherby UL and 338-06AI is custom Oregunsmithing built off a pre-64 70 action.

Either way OP decides to go would be a good option in my book. I have a plethora of R-P 338-06 virgin brass if it's needed. Sizing up 30-06 brass is super easy also.

 

[Treetopnonstop]

One of my absolute favorite rifles is a Ruger No1 chambered in 338 Gibbs! It virtually identical to the 338 Scovill, so that is the loading data I reference. Barnes loading manual lists the Scovill.

The Gibbs moves the shoulder forward about .100" and blows it out to sharper shoulder. Because I'm loading for a No1, forming cases is a little tricky. The false shoulder has to be almost perfect because the No1 doesn't have the cam action like a bolt to seat the case.

With a No1, you can get by with a bit longer barrel without making it cumbersome, I went with a 27" Octagon barrel.

Shooting 225 Barnes TSX pills, I get just shy of 338 Mag performance, without the recoil. It is a sweetheart to shoot.

I form it from 35 Whelen cases, tried 30/06 without allot of success. Too many split necks.

If you are building a custom rig on the 338/06 platform, strongly suggest looking at this round, you would not be disappointed.

Photos attached.

Very interesting! Never heard of the Gibbs or Scovill.

 

[Treetopnonstop]

Thanks for the feedback! All interesting information, lots for me to ponder before committing to a chamber.

 

[ofbandg]

338-06 is probably my all time favourite for what I hunt and where I hunt. For mid sized game I can get 3000fps with 180 accubonds using BLC-2 out of a 22 inch barrel, with no pressure signs in my custom Mauser. For bigger game I go with the 210 Nosler Partitions. Although I have had a few AI's, and they worked okay for most things, I prefer tapered cases for better feeding and extraction just in case things start happening in a hurry. I've hunted and taken game with the .338 Mag and my wife used the 338 Federal for years, and both were excellent, but the 338-06 just seems a good compromise between hard hitting on the animal and soft hitting on the shooter, while still having a good selection of bullets and brass.

 

[Swinehunt74]

I'm not Mike. I love reloading

My bad, sorry!

 

[FEENIX]

One of my absolute favorite rifles is a Ruger No1 chambered in 338 Gibbs! It virtually identical to the 338 Scovill, so that is the loading data I reference. Barnes loading manual lists the Scovill.

The Gibbs moves the shoulder forward about .100" and blows it out to sharper shoulder. Because I'm loading for a No1, forming cases is a little tricky. The false shoulder has to be almost perfect because the No1 doesn't have the cam action like a bolt to seat the case.

With a No1, you can get by with a bit longer barrel without making it cumbersome, I went with a 27" Octagon barrel.

Shooting 225 Barnes TSX pills, I get just shy of 338 Mag performance, without the recoil. It is a sweetheart to shoot.

I form it from 35 Whelen cases, tried 30/06 without allot of success. Too many split necks.

If you are building a custom rig on the 338/06 platform, strongly suggest looking at this round, you would not be disappointed.

Photos attached.

Gibbs is simply a bad arse. I have a .30 Gibbs.

L-R
1-.35 Whelen virgin brass
2-After running through the .338 WM and .30 Gibbs dies to establish the falls shoulder
3-After COW and running through .30 Gibbs sizing die
4-After fire-forming of the chamber
5-.30-06 virgin brass

I have also used .30-06, .270 Win, and .280 Rem brass . I also ended up purchasing Qual Cart brass.

Factory .30-06 loaded with 150g Powershock vs .30 Gibbs with 168 Cavity Backed bullet

190 Berger VLDs

 

[Shane Lindsey]

@FEENIX

What kind of velocities are you seeing with the 190s?

Feel free to PM as to not crud up the OP intent.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I went through the same issue deciding what I was going to build on my sporterised Mauser '98.
I had several hundred pieces of Remington and Winchester brass, most unfired but some once fired. I already had several AI cartridges but in the end I decided to just stick with necking up 30-06 brass to keep things simple.
I am very pleased with my decision to keep things simple, the velocity I was getting with the 210g Partition was perfect for the deer I shot here. Moved to 200 and 225g Accubonds just to see how well they performed and was very pleased with them too.
I also have a 257AI barrel for that rifle, but have not used it in many years, however, brass now is very hard to get here in Australia.

Cheers.