.308 win elk bullet

[Wolf76]

I'll ask the elk experts for some opinions. My 308 it's very accurate (~.5 moa) and I plan on using it out to 300 yards on an upcoming elk hunt. It shoots the 165 ttsx and 168 nosler bt with the same accuracy and speed (2700). Which one makes more sense for elk to 300? I might be able to get more speed and keep accuracy, but never had the need.

Thanks

 

[Dosh]

76, of the two the TTSX would allow for a not so perfect shot just in case the elk moves as you squeeze. I've seen the ballistic tip come apart in heavy bone.

 

[bigngreen]

I've shot and seen a lot of elk shot with a 165 and 168 Barnes of every type and I will never shoot them again and especially at 308 speed hitting bone, they deflect very easy on an elk shoulder even from a 300 Weatherby. I now use a 215 Berger from my 308 which piles them but I'd rather shoot a softer bullet than a Barnes!!!

 

[PGJPJ]

I'd probably feel pretty confident with either bullets. My 308 is my back-up for elk hunts with 165 grain BT's. No worries inside of 300 yards.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Don't overlook the accubond.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I agree with Michael that if you are going to shoot elk you need a bullet that will keep together and make it to the far side. The ballistic tip is not intended for game that big. If I were going to use a lead core bullet my first choice would be the AB.

With that said I think we make the ideal bullet. The Hammer Hunter will shoot as accurately as any bullet you have ever shot, hold together regardless of impact velocity and open up down to 1800fps easily. We run our hollow point deep so that the bullet opens all the way to the shoulder then retains the rest of the bullet and will generally make it through the animal. No lead equals much less meat loss and no chance of eating lead that is toxic.

Steve

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

^ This

 

[WildRose]

I'll ask the elk experts for some opinions. My 308 it's very accurate (~.5 moa) and I plan on using it out to 300 yards on an upcoming elk hunt. It shoots the 165 ttsx and 168 nosler bt with the same accuracy and speed (2700). Which one makes more sense for elk to 300? I might be able to get more speed and keep accuracy, but never had the need.

Thanks

The TTSX hands down would be the better of the two. The Nosler BT is not a bullet designed for heavy bodied game and tend to break up with little penetration on anything heavier than a white tailed deer.

Personally I'd much prefer the Nosler Accubond or Hornady Interbond. If your rifle will shoot the Hornady ELD-X well I'd not hesitate to try it either.

At the range your shooting though it would be hard to beat the tried and true Nosler Partition. A good friend of mine put at least one elk a year in the freezer every year for over 30 years shooting the Partition in his factory 700bdl 7mm Rem Mag. I can't remember though if he shot the 160gr or 175's.

My only issue with the partition is that it lacks the High BC's we need for long range shooting.

 

[bigngreen]

At 308 velocities you need a bullet that will mushroom, your impact velocities are much lower than a 300 win mag so don't shoot the same bullet. Match your bullet and impact velocity and game don't just grab a bullet, I very rarely would say to shoot a BT however it's the same bullet as the accubond without the bonding, an accubond will quite mushrooming much earlier in the process which is not what you need at 308 speeds, at 300 mag speeds way different story.
Inside of a half hour I watch a 168 and 165 Barnes fail to penetrate the chest of cow elk, I shot one with a 168 from a 300 WBY, dropped her and she looked dead so we ran down the line and my freind shot a cow in the center of the shoulder with a 30-06 and a 165 Barnes, it broke her shoulder but did not penetrate into the chest, I called for a shot behind the shoulder as she was hobbling around which killed her. We then saw my cow was trying to get up so I ran over and cut her throat, my elk was 400+ his was 230 yards, my bullet broke her shoulder and then turned out the front of the shoulder my buddies just mushroomed and stopped.
What we've figured out with shooting these overly hard bullets on elk is that you have to maintain enough impact velocity that the bullet shank can force it's self through an over sized mushroom. The hard bullets create a huge amount of frontal area which is why they are them stop or deflect without a significant amount of momentum behind them.
I used to subscribe to the "elk bullet" theory till we started shooting elk on open pivots, a 100+ a year, there was an undeniable trend with having to shoot elk more times when using copper or bonded bullets. Ten years ago I went back to a regular cup and core bullet, I have not had to shoot an elk twice since with the exception of when I tested a copper bullet out again, on two elk and a mule deer I shot on elk and the bullet deflected but still broke its neck, the second elk and mule deer both needed dispatched due to 3/4 inch wound channels.

I will absalutely still shoot copper or bonded bullets but I certainly would match them to the rifle and game, I have yet to see a bullet that will do the same job across the board.

 

[Wolf76]

30 cal bullet test, cow femurs and newspaper part 1 | Hunting Rifles | 24hourcampfire
I saw this post and thought either bullet would work, but haven't shot an elk before. My primary gun is a 300 WM with a 200 gr accubond. This more than enough. But my friend is using my 308 and will be a backup. Just looking for opinions. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[bigngreen]

Really from my point of view any bullet will kill an elk if you pick the appropriate spot to put it, we have young people hunting all the time and for the most part we try to have them shoot a 223 with soft points, they have an easy time putting a bullet right behind the shoulder and that is all that is needed, a hole through both lungs from a mushroomed bullet takes a toll on an elk fast, seen some pretty big bulls taco'ed by a 223!!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

You need a bullet that has a min of 1.5sg stability so that it stays point on on impact to ensure that the bullet deforms as it is designed and stays on the proper coarse of direction to do the most damage possible all the way through the elk. Our bullet is designed to open the nose of the bullet all the way to the shoulder, shed the nose petals, flatten the front area of the shank of the bullet like a dangerous game bullet, then travel on creating a large permanent wound channel. The wound channel is caused by displacing soft tissue perpendicular to the direction the bullet is traveling. The key to large wound channels is the perpendicular displacement of tissue. A rounded mushroomed bullet will not displace as much tissue due to the fact that the tissue can part around the smooth rounded shape of the mushroom and spring back into place leaving less broken tissue than the smaller square shank bullet that shed the petals.

Here is a pic of a 181g .308 that I recovered from a cow last fall. The shot was a frontal shot and the bullet traveled through nearly 4' of elk before it stopped. She took about four steps and fell over dead.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/images/longrangehunting/attach/jpg.gif

Steve

 

[WildRose]

At 308 velocities you need a bullet that will mushroom, your impact velocities are much lower than a 300 win mag so don't shoot the same bullet. Match your bullet and impact velocity and game don't just grab a bullet, I very rarely would say to shoot a BT however it's the same bullet as the accubond without the bonding, an accubond will quite mushrooming much earlier in the process which is not what you need at 308 speeds, at 300 mag speeds way different story.
Inside of a half hour I watch a 168 and 165 Barnes fail to penetrate the chest of cow elk, I shot one with a 168 from a 300 WBY, dropped her and she looked dead so we ran down the line and my freind shot a cow in the center of the shoulder with a 30-06 and a 165 Barnes, it broke her shoulder but did not penetrate into the chest, I called for a shot behind the shoulder as she was hobbling around which killed her. We then saw my cow was trying to get up so I ran over and cut her throat, my elk was 400+ his was 230 yards, my bullet broke her shoulder and then turned out the front of the shoulder my buddies just mushroomed and stopped.
What we've figured out with shooting these overly hard bullets on elk is that you have to maintain enough impact velocity that the bullet shank can force it's self through an over sized mushroom. The hard bullets create a huge amount of frontal area which is why they are them stop or deflect without a significant amount of momentum behind them.
I used to subscribe to the "elk bullet" theory till we started shooting elk on open pivots, a 100+ a year, there was an undeniable trend with having to shoot elk more times when using copper or bonded bullets. Ten years ago I went back to a regular cup and core bullet, I have not had to shoot an elk twice since with the exception of when I tested a copper bullet out again, on two elk and a mule deer I shot on elk and the bullet deflected but still broke its neck, the second elk and mule deer both needed dispatched due to 3/4 inch wound channels.

I will absalutely still shoot copper or bonded bullets but I certainly would match them to the rifle and game, I have yet to see a bullet that will do the same job across the board.

One of my favorite truck guns is a Mini-14 in 6.8spc.

The Nosler Accubond has proven to be the bullet of choice for me in the 6.8 on hogs and deer because it always opens up and never breaks up at those velocities. Even on coyotes it typically produces a 1.5" or so exit so it is even opening up on them well.

In my experience and from nearly everything I've read from others it's just a bullet that really never fails to perform as designed when used as designed.

 

[HARPERC]

........What we've figured out with shooting these overly hard bullets on elk is that you have to maintain enough impact velocity that the bullet shank can force it's self through an over sized mushroom. The hard bullets create a huge amount of frontal area which is why they are them stop or deflect without a significant amount of momentum behind them.

I mostly have thought of the back end of the bullet trying to catch up with the front end while in the barrel. When thinking of terminal performance I've always thought of the front mushrooming back. I like the thought of the rear having to drive through.

With bonded type bullets I definitely don't agree with the advice to back down a bullet weight. Generally I think stepping up is necessary to maintain the same penetration, even in soft tissue.

................I used to subscribe to the "elk bullet" theory till we started shooting elk on open pivots,...........................

I appreciate you and Broz relating your experiences. The two of you are seeing enough elk killed each year to have meaningful, experienced, opinion.

I somehow managed to run my stuff in with your quotes. Hopefully, that doesn't cause much confusion.