.25-06 vs .25-06AI

[PFields]

I'm having a rifle built and I've pretty much settled on a .25-06. This rifle will have a 24" barrel. I have a Zeiss Conquest HD5, 3-15X42mm I'm going to mount on it. It will be used for hunting within 400 yards. I'm already set up to load .25-06. For the really long stuff I have a 26" barreled .264 Win Mag with a Leupold VX6, 3-18X50 mm. Given this info would it be worthwhile to consider the .25-06AI instead of the .25-06.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Yes, go .25-06 AI 40º...But I recommend a fluted stainless 26" Rem Varmint/Sendero contour barrel. The AI version is worth the effort, and worth the price of a set of dies. The brass growth is minimal, brass longevity is good, the velocity boost is nice, and fire-forming is simple when using .270 Win brass, and Nosler or Lapua .270 Win brass is available. I can give you some tips & tricks for fire-forming if you go the AI route.

I use Redding dies Part #: 84422, and they're actually on sale at Midway USA right now, for nearly half-price.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/103701/redding-deluxe-3-die-set

Or you can get them for full-price of $160 at Brownells...

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...m-ackley-imp-40-sku749007792-37436-70978.aspx

I love my custom .25-06 AI. It was only about 75 fps slower than my .257 Wby was, both using Berger 115 VLD's and IMR 7828 SSC powder. I scrapped the Weatherby (for several reasons) and kept the .25-06 AI.

 

[PFields]

Thanks for the info, but I don't want a 26" Sendero contour barrel. The barrel will be a 24 " fluted stainless with a contour between #4 and #5.

 

[lancetkenyon]

.25-06AI if you don't mind fire forming and reloading for it.

I have had a .25-06AI for a long time. A great hunting round for deer/antelope out to 700 or so. 28" #4 barrel on mine and pushing a 115 Berger HVLD @ 3460fps. I had them up to nearly 3600, but accuracy was better at the 3460 speeds. I also had a 100 TTSX load at 3650fps. I would think you might be 100-150fps slower with a 24" barrel, but still plenty for zapping deer.

Shot a big bodied muley @ 488 with a hard quartering on pass through. Entered neck/shoulder, exited off side hip. Deer was stone cold dead on his feet, and stood there for 3 seconds before keeling over without a twitch. That rifle took a lot of deer for myself and family & friends. All one and done. Speed kills.

I still have not drawn the AZ antelope tag I specifically built this rifle for about 14 years ago.

I think I have about 700 rounds down the barrel, and it still shoots in the .3s.

 

[MOJO67]

I'm having a rifle built and I've pretty much settled on a .25-06. This rifle will have a 24" barrel. I have a Zeiss Conquest HD5, 3-15X42mm I'm going to mount on it. It will be used for hunting within 400 yards. I'm already set up to load .25-06. For the really long stuff I have a 26" barreled .264 Win Mag with a Leupold VX6, 3-18X50 mm. Given this info would it be worthwhile to consider the .25-06AI instead of the .25-06.

If you're already set up to load for a 25-06, I'd skip the Ackley. Not worth the hassle, imo. You won't notice a bit of difference between the two, especially if you're limiting your range to 400. A standard 25-06 shooting any hunting bullet will absolutely flatten thin skinned game out to 400 yds.

 

[MudRunner2005]

If you're already set up to load for a 25-06, I'd skip the Ackley. Not worth the hassle, imo. You won't notice a bit of difference between the two, especially if you're limiting your range to 400. A standard 25-06 shooting any hunting bullet will absolutely flatten thin skinned game out to 400 yds.

Yeah, except for that 150+ FPS MV increase... Not to mention the better brass life, less case trimming, less brass growth, better pressure handling, better powder combustion from the sharper 40º shoulder angle, and easier on your bolt lugs (less case taper grabs the chamber walls better with helps alleviate rearward pressure on the bolt lugs, excess pressure which can cause severe & irreversible damage to the bolt & receiver).

Nothing wrong with the standard .25-06 Rem, it's an iconic cartridge for good reason, but to say there is no difference between the Rem and AI versions is simply untrue.

 

[MOJO67]

Yeah, except for that 150+ FPS MV increase... Not to mention the better brass life, less case trimming, less brass growth, better pressure handling, better powder combustion from the sharper 40º shoulder angle, and easier on your bolt lugs (less case taper grabs the chamber walls better with helps alleviate rearward pressure on the bolt lugs, excess pressure which can cause severe & irreversible damage to the bolt & receiver).

Nothing wrong with the standard .25-06 Rem, it's an iconic cartridge for good reason, but to say there is no difference between the Rem and AI versions is simply untrue.

Yep, definitely differences between the 2 rounds. However, the difference I was referring to was regarding performance on game. Like I said, I don't believe anyone (or animal) will notice the additional velocity of the Ackley. For most, there's just not enough upside to justify the hassle of owning one. You mentioned the upsides, but failed to mention the downsides. To name a few.. additional time required in fire forming brass, additional costs of bullets, powder, primers used for fire forming, increased cost for dies, additional barrel wear, difficult to re-sell, resale value, etc. For me, the big kicker is the time involved in fire forming. With kids, time is a pressure resource and I'd rather not waste my time fire forming.

In the end, the OP has to decide if the upsides of owning an Ackley are worth it. Most shooters after also considering the downsides, realize it's not.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Cost for fire-forming can be VERY minimal, if you want it to be. You can do it the old school way, which is how I do it. Or, you can buy a hydroforming die and never spend an extra bullet, powder, primer, or barrel wear getting your cases 95% fire-formed with just a die, some water, and a hammer.

As for resale value, that's only important to people who plan to resale their gun. Some of us recycle them (rebarrel) when we need a new tube, or want to try something else, instead of selling, and when we need something completely different, we shelve the old one in the safe for a later date, and go buy/build a new one. Buying firearms to recoup some of your money later on, is only going to happen when you start buying $10,000+ fancy custom one-off guns built by folks like Holland & Holland, Perazzi shotguns, Kreighoff, etc... Buying/building a custom rifle and then shooting it, the value is going to decrease nearly half. It's always a losing battle. So, people who try to use resale value as a justification, are only justifying their dreams and not reality. Your gun is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

And yes, in the end, it is the OP's decision whether to AI, or not.

 

[Buffalobob]

You should consider an 8 twist barrel. t will do everything a 10 twist will do plus if you decide later on to use long bullets you are good to go.

 

[MOJO67]

You should consider an 8 twist barrel. t will do everything a 10 twist will do plus if you decide later on to use long bullets you are good to go.

Which "long bullets" are you referring to?

 

[lancetkenyon]

If only Berger would come out with a 130 EOL...

A 115 HVLD or 117/120 stabilize fine from a 1:10".

127 Hammer needs 1:7"
115 Cutting Edge MTC says 1:8.5".

 

[Buffalobob]

I have a 257 Wby with a 8 twist barrel and I shoot 130 gr and 142 gr bullets with it. At one time these bullets were available from a guy named Richard Graves AKA Wildcat Bullets. It is impossible to predict what bullets might become available during the life of a 25-06 but as was mentioned the solid copper bullets are out there.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...ith-130-gr-wildcats-again.142361/#post-999456

 

[HARPERC]

I haven't run the numbers so feel free to provide some

Generally, if you're looking at long range, the better BC's of the longer bullets, will benefit you more than the AI conversion.

 

[lancetkenyon]

A little tit for tat...
An AI conversion allows you to push the heavier, higher BC bullet at or above the velocities a standard cartridge will push the lighter bullets, or gain 100-200+ fps with the same bullet.

So you get: Benefit of the higher BC/heavier bullet, and....more speed means less wind drift, flatter trajectory, more retained velocity, and greater energy remaining on target.

I have had and or done load development for several AI chambered rifles.
.22-250AI
.243AI
.250AI
.25-06AI
.260AI
6.5-06AI
6.5-.270AI
.280AI
.30-06AI