MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Same here. My .25-06 AI has been great for working up loads with. Not difficult at all. Also, the Shermans are cool cartridges. If I had the cash I would build several of them.
25-06 vs. 257 Wby
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The .257 Weatherby I used for a season was a loaner gun from a good friend. It had many rounds through it before I got ahold of it and I shot 87 rounds, he chuckled and said thanks for saving 13 rounds, when I had returned the rifle. It is his daughters rifle now and she kills deer and elk with it every year.
I should call him and ask how many it has, if he even would know.
It was a very fun gun. One of the most accurate rifles I have ever got to shoot. Just a Plain Jain Mark V
I should call him and ask how many it has, if he even would know.
It was a very fun gun. One of the most accurate rifles I have ever got to shoot. Just a Plain Jain Mark V
I have two builds going right now, based off of what I have found for a good deal. One is a M77 tang action off I gun on hand and the other is a Savage action( just cause I can). The barrels, stocks and triggers will happen soon enough. Gonna do the Savage myself with some guidance but the Ruger will be a Smith thing for sure. And both will be Sherms
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
I would be interested in what sort of performance you are getting with your 25-06AI that are within 50-75 fps of the 257Wby. I have owned a couple of each and in my experience the 257Wby is a very substantial gain over any 25-06AI.
I'll even go first. 257 Wby with 26" barrel. 100 grain bullets go 3700+ fps. 110 Accubonds go 3550 with a very mild load and 75 grain V-Max's run 3950 fps. The V-Max's are literal tack drivers and the 110 Accubond's in the 3/8th MOA range.
My 24" 25-06AI's ran 200+ fps slower with the same bullets and blowing primers. If you cripple the 257Wby with a 24" barrel they run 100 fps slower.
I'll even go first. 257 Wby with 26" barrel. 100 grain bullets go 3700+ fps. 110 Accubonds go 3550 with a very mild load and 75 grain V-Max's run 3950 fps. The V-Max's are literal tack drivers and the 110 Accubond's in the 3/8th MOA range.
My 24" 25-06AI's ran 200+ fps slower with the same bullets and blowing primers. If you cripple the 257Wby with a 24" barrel they run 100 fps slower.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
I owned both of mine and compared them side-by-side. Both were 26" 1:10 twist barrels using the same bullets.
I average (deepending on weather conditions) around 3,350-3,375 FPS with 115 Bergers in my .25-06 AI using IMR 7828 SSC, Winchester .270 Win brass, and Federal 210M primers.
I would like to know how you are getting 3,700 FPS from a 100gr bullet in a 26" .257 Wby... I don't even think the Norma/Wby brand brass could hold together at those chamber pressures. Factory Weatherby brand ammo is already hot and 110 Accubonds are only around 3,450 FPS...I'll be glad to go take a picture of one of the boxes in the safe, if you'd prefer... That means you're pushing a 10gr lighter bullet over 250 FPS faster. Seems outrageous. I'm also calling ******** that your 110 Accubonds were going 3,550 on a "mild load" in a 26" barrel...That's just not possible. With 115 Bergers I was getting around the same 3,450-3,460 FPS and that was pushing it on the upper end with slower burning powders and still getting ejector swipes and flattened primers. Now, the 75gr V-Max... I can believe those were going almost 4,000 FPS. But with the other 2 loads, I think you need to get a new chronograph.
Also, I would like to know how you can compare a 26" .257 Wby to a 24" .25-06 AI and claim that's even a fair comparison?
Also, you just said if you "cripple" the .257 Wby and cut it down to a 24" barrel, you move the increment to around 100 FPS difference... The same thing happens when you add 2" of barrel to the .25-06 AI... The 25-50 FPS discrepancy between your rifle and mine, can be explained in something as simple as powder lots, barrels (some are faster than others, some slower), or even the type of powder we use, or even the difference in the reamers used being slightly worn or slightly out of spec, or slightly different in specs...
There's too many factors to even argue about trying to claim that I'm wrong, and how your precious favorite cartridge is bigger and better than mine. I really have better things to do than argue how a 25 FPS difference in 2 completely different rifles is even worth arguing about. Of course unless you're still wanting to act ****y and hold a grudge about what happened with my Weatherby, because that's your favorite brand of rifles, and you're still holding some sort of weird personal butthurt grudge over that situation that didn't affect you at all in ANY way shape or form... Then that explains why you would pick something as small as a 25-50 FPS difference to be petty about. It's the internet, don't take everything so personal.
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I don't have my load data here on hand, but I shot 100 grain tsx at 3780 out of a factory 26" mark v, with 7828ssc. Killed quite a few bucks and a couple cow elk with that load, never had any pressure or brass issues, occasionally a split neck after 4-5 loadings.
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
No grudges and certainly not looking for an argument. Not my thing. My thing is learning everything I can when it comes to my profession or hobbies. You can never learn to much about ballistics, setting drag racing world records or flying. I am concerned when such blatantly contrary info is given to guys just trying to learn. If left unchallenged or verified that sort of thing can be repeated until people start thinking it is fact rather than what ever it is and turn into a safety issue.
You stated the 25-06AI does 50-75 fps as a 257 Wby. My and many others experience is much to the contrary. I disagree with your opinion but if you have discovered something new I would like to know all about it. There are new powders that added 100 fps on my Long Range Rifles and thought maybe it was something like that. Seeing this as a chance to learn I was curious what the specifics were for you to get a 25-06AI or Improved up to within 50-75 fps of what the Weatherby will do and that is 3550 with 110's or 3700 with 100 grain bullets. There are already 2 different guys in this thread that are exceeding my claimed speeds. Dean2 stated 3580 with 110's and 257Tony is getting 3780 with 100 grain bullets. The internet has many many references to both bullets being shot to my claimed speed and much more.
You asked. How do I get 3700? Here is my answer. I do it with real Weatherby brass, CCI-250 primers and IMR7828 powder OAL of 3.300" in a bedded Accumark. Now your turn. How do you get within 50-75 fps of it with your 25-06AI with a 26" barrel.
You stated the 25-06AI does 50-75 fps as a 257 Wby. My and many others experience is much to the contrary. I disagree with your opinion but if you have discovered something new I would like to know all about it. There are new powders that added 100 fps on my Long Range Rifles and thought maybe it was something like that. Seeing this as a chance to learn I was curious what the specifics were for you to get a 25-06AI or Improved up to within 50-75 fps of what the Weatherby will do and that is 3550 with 110's or 3700 with 100 grain bullets. There are already 2 different guys in this thread that are exceeding my claimed speeds. Dean2 stated 3580 with 110's and 257Tony is getting 3780 with 100 grain bullets. The internet has many many references to both bullets being shot to my claimed speed and much more.
You asked. How do I get 3700? Here is my answer. I do it with real Weatherby brass, CCI-250 primers and IMR7828 powder OAL of 3.300" in a bedded Accumark. Now your turn. How do you get within 50-75 fps of it with your 25-06AI with a 26" barrel.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
I explained that already...
My rifle has a custom match chamber that has tight body dimensions and a SAAMI spec neck for no turning. The barrel is a hand-lapped 26" with a lathe-cut recessed target crown. I seat the bullets 0.015" off the lands.
Other than that, I have no idea what information you are wanting to explain how I get the speeds I get. Several other guys on here have gotten similar velocities with theirs using similar load specs. I don't want to mention a powder charge, because what works in mine might be too much for s someone else's rifle, and I'd rather not put out the info and someone get hurt or blowup their rifle trying to match my results. Also, powder lots vary, chamber specs vary, barrel speeds vary, and even chronographs vary. I use a Magneto Speed V2, which is known to be one of the most accurate on the market.
I don't know what else to tell you... I worked up loads, found max safe load, it shot acceptable groups, and it chrono'd an average of 3,350, sometimes up to 3,375 at peaks. No magic to it, that's just how things worked out. If you don't accept that, well, I can't help you.
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
You contradict yourself so much it's very confusing what you are trying to say. I prefer the 25-06AI with all it's advantages but still want a 257 with it's lengthy list of flaws. The only thing that makes sense is you are still sour grapes about your last Weatherby rifle. It really isn't/wasn't fair badmouthing them and not giving them a chance to make it right for you. I also agree with your last sentence. You can't help me. You should have lead in with that. I'm going back to the deep end where the kids can't touch bottom. Happy Thanksgiving.
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
I did a 257 Weatherby on a Savage action. I bought a 24 in 25 ought 6 Barrel from Midway $ 130, had a chamber to 257 Weatherby and got 3700 feet per second with 100 grain tipped TSX using 7828. Used the same brass cases for several firings.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
It's possible to still like a cartridge, but not like everything about it. How is that contradictory? When you buy a car, you might not like everything about it, or it might not have an option or 2 that you are wanting, but if they offer you a great deal, you might still buy it. Same goes for a house. Etc...
It's not sour grapes, I just refuse to give them anymore of my money. The rifle's gone, LONG gone...I've moved on from it the day I got rid of it. I was civilized, and all of this happened before I ever posted about it on the internet. I gave Weatherby an opportunity, when their CS rep basically told me to go screw myself, that's called NOT wanting to make it right. I still had the original box, and was wanting to send it back to them for examination and barrel replacement (I had already had it borescoped by my gunsmith, so I knew the barrel was trashed). But they didn't care, and didn't want to help. The way I was treated by their customer service, and the fact they didn't even want to look at it or own up to the fact they put out a defective product, THOROUGHLY ****ed me off about the whole thing. I've been screwed over by companies before, but when someone puts out a defective product, that's the manufacturer's responsibility to correct...Unless they tell you that the product is "as/is no warranty" when you bought it.
I don't badmouth them anymore, I just recommend people to buy something else made by a different company. Opinions change, regardless of reason, and my reasons are my reasons, and I don't have to justify a **** thing to anyone else, as to why my reasons or opinion changed. It's not badmouthing them if it REALLY happened. And all that really happened. All it is, is a warning to others not to waste their money on a product that's inferior to the MSRP, or with a company that won't stand behind their products they made. I don't want to see someone else get screwed over, like I did. It's called being helpful to others. And if that's wrong, then the world is in worse shape than I thought.
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
MudRunner2005,
No matter how bad you think the world is it is worse than that.
As far as Weatherby customer service goes, I have experienced their bad side. It was ridiculous. And yet I've had four or five Weatherbys and still have two. I'm not going to "cut off my nose to spite my face."
No matter how bad you think the world is it is worse than that.
As far as Weatherby customer service goes, I have experienced their bad side. It was ridiculous. And yet I've had four or five Weatherbys and still have two. I'm not going to "cut off my nose to spite my face."
