I have owned a few 7mm rifles. If I was building a new long action rifle I would only consider two cartridges. You can narrow the selection to one based on what and where you intend to hunt. All the rest of the cartridge choices don't offer anything additional except confusion. My two choices would be a 7mm Weatherby Mag or a 7mm Dakota.
Which 7mm to build???
- Thread starter shortpants
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Broz
Well-Known Member
I didn't read this entire thread, so excuse me if this post is redundant. But I did read enough to find most of the OP's criteria for this rifle.
Let me say I am a fan of the 7mm chamberings. My most favoite is the 7mm-300 win that I have posted about in the past. Why? Because you can get brass that is awesome and it is readily available, it will sent a 180 VLD to 3200 fps in a 28" plus tube. It is easy to change a bushing and use the redding 300 win dies for it, and I feel this case is as far as you can go with out having really accelerated throat wear in a 7mm. It will shoot very accuratly without modifying the shoulder of the highly accurate 300 win that has been respected in matches for years. I really like this chambering and I am doing one for a friend off of a Mark V action now.
That said, it has been mentioned ELK and also 1000 yards. This will probably tick some 7mm fans off but I feel there are better choices for elk at 1000 than a 7mm. 1000 is the absolute limit I put on my 300 win with 210's or 230's and only in near perfect conditions. I say that and my 300 win is a truely consistant 1/2 moa rifle at 1000. But soon after 1000 the bullet is dropping below 1700 fps and at this point it is very hard to get decent expansion of any bullet.
So, for 7mm I feel 800 or maybe 900 yards is a good perfect condition limit. If you want to go to 1000 go with a 300 win mag. Especially with the newly released 230 OTM's. They added about 130 lbs of energy over the 210's at 1000.
If one will ever consider putting the wods elk and over 1000 in the same senario. Get a .338
Just my opinion.
Jeff
Let me say I am a fan of the 7mm chamberings. My most favoite is the 7mm-300 win that I have posted about in the past. Why? Because you can get brass that is awesome and it is readily available, it will sent a 180 VLD to 3200 fps in a 28" plus tube. It is easy to change a bushing and use the redding 300 win dies for it, and I feel this case is as far as you can go with out having really accelerated throat wear in a 7mm. It will shoot very accuratly without modifying the shoulder of the highly accurate 300 win that has been respected in matches for years. I really like this chambering and I am doing one for a friend off of a Mark V action now.
That said, it has been mentioned ELK and also 1000 yards. This will probably tick some 7mm fans off but I feel there are better choices for elk at 1000 than a 7mm. 1000 is the absolute limit I put on my 300 win with 210's or 230's and only in near perfect conditions. I say that and my 300 win is a truely consistant 1/2 moa rifle at 1000. But soon after 1000 the bullet is dropping below 1700 fps and at this point it is very hard to get decent expansion of any bullet.
So, for 7mm I feel 800 or maybe 900 yards is a good perfect condition limit. If you want to go to 1000 go with a 300 win mag. Especially with the newly released 230 OTM's. They added about 130 lbs of energy over the 210's at 1000.
If one will ever consider putting the wods elk and over 1000 in the same senario. Get a .338
Just my opinion.
Jeff
shortpants
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2011
- Messages
- 619
Thanks Jeff! Do you headspace on the belt or shoulder on your 7-300win? Also how do you think the 7-300wsm would stack up against yours. If you were going to stick with a 26" tube would that make you favor the wsm over the win case? I've heard of feeding issues with belted cartridges but figure it can't be a very big problem due to their popularity. I agree 100% with 7's being maxed out at 1000 yds and definantly agree on limiting it's use on elk to 800-900. I try to stay above 1800 fps. as a min. but for elk the more the better!
Broz
Well-Known Member
I headspace off the shoulder. I am not a short mag guy. So I can't tell you a lot about them. But I do know comparing 300 win to 300 WSM I get more velocity from the 300 win. I have never heard of the belyed cases having a feeding problem. I have owned many many elted cases in Wby Mags as well as several 300 win mags. Never had a feed issue. But I have heard that some short mags do..?
Jeff
Jeff
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I'm rapidly closing in on 2,000rds with the STW.
I have no idea how many I put through my last two 7mm mag's though but they were my every day carry/truck guns which means I put at least 10rds per week through them throughout their lives. I had the first for 20 years and the 2nd for 8 years before my Ex parted with it.
I loved that gun but it was a small price to pay to be rid of her.
I have the STW at the gunsmith now and he's going to bore scope it and tell me how much life it's got left.
Unlike the 7mm mag's it's only been hot one time. The 7mm mags I used to shoot a hell of a lot of long range prairie dogs with so they got quite hot quite often.
The STW still shoots well enough that I had a one shot kill on a Bobcat with it in August at right at 880 yards.
Did some research on the 7mm LRM yesterday 1-13-2012. The previous poster mentioned that Gunwerks will have brass and dies available at a reasonable cost. The prices are much higher that his report. I was told by a gentleman at Gunwerks that Hornady is making headstamped brass for Gunwerks. Cost is $2.80 each. The usual FL/seater die set is $180.
Hornady told me that it takes three forming dies costing $70- 90 each to alter the 375 Ruger brass to make the LRM case. Simply necking down the 375 brass is not enough as the neck becomes too short. Gunwerks bumps the shoulder back making a longer neck.
This proprietary case is costly regardless if you buy them or do it yourself.
Hornady told me that it takes three forming dies costing $70- 90 each to alter the 375 Ruger brass to make the LRM case. Simply necking down the 375 brass is not enough as the neck becomes too short. Gunwerks bumps the shoulder back making a longer neck.
This proprietary case is costly regardless if you buy them or do it yourself.
That makes $1.80 a piece for 7mm Dakota brass cheap by comparison and there are several dealers for the brass too. I think they are pretty optimistic about their velocities for the 7LRM with 180 Grain Bergers. Case capacity is less than the Dakota and probably a little less than the STW and they are reporting velocities equivalent to the Ultra Mags.
Broz
Well-Known Member
My experience with the 7stw is much different than yours. And the ones I have been around had great care taken about heat and never more than a 3 shot grp.
So I was up at Dave Youngs yesterday (Youngs Custom Gunsmithing) dropping off another 7mm-300 build I am doing. Dave has done everything with the 7 stw that one could do. This includes one of his favorite rounds the 257 STW. Dave likes high velocity rounds and builds a ton of them. Dave has taken special interest in the 7mm-300 wins I have had him chamber for me. But that another story. So I asked Dave, under normal conditions with no abuse, when do you start to see throat errosion of the 7mmSTW. He quickly rplied at 500 rounds. Then went on to say by 1000 rounds most of them are ready for a new barrel if the shooter wants to retain their capable accuracy.
Now that does not mean they will not still hit a gong at 1000 if they have 1200 rounds through them. But for sure theyare dying a pretty rapid death after 500 rounds by my standards.
For what its worth, and this has also been my experience and why I say the 7mm -300 win is as large of case as I want 7mm for as much as we shoot.
Jeff gun)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TMR
Official LRH Sponsor
Jeff's 7mm STW experiences pretty much mirror mine. I was replacing barrels yearly when I was shooting them. 1000 rounds was about the tops to keep the accuracy I was looking for. Some of them that were run hard lasted less than 750 rounds. A guy will be better suited with a properly throated 7RM or the 7-300WM. The STW is a great round for the occasional shooter. For someone that shoots daily, it might not be the best choice, unless you do your own barrel work.
My 7RM's with 180's run 3030-3050 in 26-27" barrels and everyone is getting around 7-8 firings on a case. I have been looking at doing a 7-300 to experiment, but not sure the extra 75-100fps in the same length barrels will be worth it. The extra velocity does give less elevation, but the windage is within 2" of each other at 1k.
My 7RM's with 180's run 3030-3050 in 26-27" barrels and everyone is getting around 7-8 firings on a case. I have been looking at doing a 7-300 to experiment, but not sure the extra 75-100fps in the same length barrels will be worth it. The extra velocity does give less elevation, but the windage is within 2" of each other at 1k.
midnightmalloy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 842
You are incorrect my friend. The two prices you quoted are for there current brass that they have to form from 375ruger basic brass. Thats why its $2.80 each. The prices i quoted are directly from aaron davidson in multiple emails. Youre confusing two different things here. Im quoting the price of the headstamped 7lrm brass and dies that are licensed through hornady that will be out in febuary or march. If you simply call and ask for the price they will give you there current price. You kinda blasted me here yet dont even know who you talked to at gunwerks. Funny.
moombaskier
Well-Known Member
That's waaay higher $$$$ than what I paid for my 7LRM brass and dies. There sure does seem to be a lot of fuss over this thread! I went with the 7LRM because it was available to me quickly. I originally wanted the 7mm-300Win mag, but I couldn't get the work done soon enough. I'm glad I did business with GunWerks and the 7LRM. They were quick, and the price was very reasonable for the excellent work they performed. That's why I would choose the 7LRM, period.
shortpants
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2011
- Messages
- 619
I want to thank everyone who has responded to this thread, I know I have learned a lot as I'm sure many others will benefit from your thoughts as well! I also want to encourage all of you to share some specifics regarding your pet load for your 7 and what kind of barrel life your getting? I've been told on average velocity increases 35fps per inch of barrel increase. Is that about right? I believe I'm starting to narrow down the choices a little but I want to hear some more specifis about barrel life in 7rm. If anybody has specifics on a 7-300wsm I'd like to know more about it as well.
Last edited:
Midnightmalloy,
I didn't BLAST you I simply repeated what I was told yesterday. There was no intention to go after you in any way. The Gunwerks representative didn't mention a cost difference of current brass vs the upcoming brass! I stand corrected. I would consider using their brass if it is the lower price.
The gentleman I talked to did not mention his name and I didn't think I needed ask, can't help you if you think it funny because I didn't get his name. Regardless of who talks to prospective customers the information should be the same.
I didn't BLAST you I simply repeated what I was told yesterday. There was no intention to go after you in any way. The Gunwerks representative didn't mention a cost difference of current brass vs the upcoming brass! I stand corrected. I would consider using their brass if it is the lower price.
The gentleman I talked to did not mention his name and I didn't think I needed ask, can't help you if you think it funny because I didn't get his name. Regardless of who talks to prospective customers the information should be the same.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
You want 1000 yard hunting capability with the most barrel life. This scratches this whole 7mm thread from the start. Not the caliber for these two combinations. The 300 wsm has amazing barrel life and with the 210 berger at over 2900 fps will kill deer at 1000 yards. If you are talking elk at 1000 yards you need to trash the whole 7mm thread and look larger caliber from the start. The 300 winchester is good with a little less barrel life than the 300 wsm. The belt is not a problem for feeding or anything else and most top shooters headspace off the shoulder even with belted cartridges.
Basically you need to decide exactly what the top priority is you want out of this rifle and focus on that. More barrel life or 800 yards instead of 1000 for instance. That could change your caliber right off the bat. Less expensive for reloading to shoot a lot for practice. Think about these things and don't pick a caliber yet until you decide exactly what your priorities are.
I have read over the velocities reported on here. I own several of these rifles that have been discussed and have shot them all since the 70's except the 7mm-300 winchester. I haven't done that one since the 70's going for the more powerful 7 stw and 7mm-300 wby. With the new long high bc vld bullets available now the 300 winny necked down has a resurgence because it is a shorter case and will feed these long bullets easier. With the stw and wby they are single shot pretty much. I would not expect to get 3000 fps with a 180 grain bullet out of a 7mm rem mag or 3200 fps out of a 7mm-300 winchester. Some rifles may get that but the averages will fall short. I will admit my loads were worked up before some of the newer powders and bullets were available. Using the 175 grain SGK which was about the best you could do for years with the 7mm. A 7mm remington would drive that bullet max on average about 2850 fps with any kind of brass life. The 7mm-300 winchester would drive it around 3050 fps tops. So evidently some of the newer powders are bringing new life into these older cartridges. Or, as in the case of some of my rifles, they are hitting on the high side of the velocity spectrum.
I have some that just shoot way beyond where they should and have built a few for other people. Like a 300 winchester that shoots 180 grain bullets 3350 fps and a 300 wby shooting them 3400 fps accurately without pressure signs. About 200 fps beyond where they should be. I wish I knew what made these rifles do that because I could make a mint. Some of the velocities listed in the threads could be from very fast barrels. From my experience though and the powders I have used these are not the velocities an average guy could expect from these cartridges. I am not saying these guys did not get what they say because fast barrels happen. I just think the average barrel may be less than that.
I just wanted to add a 300 winchester with 180 grain bullets will average 3150 fps top end. Reducing the caliber to .284 (7mm) will reduce that velocity significantly. I have numerous 7mm STW's and 7mm-300 WBY's. They all will average around 3200 fps with a 175 grain SGK tops on average. These are more powerful rifles than the smaller 7mm-300 winchester. So that is what I am basing this on. I do have one really fast 7mm-300 wby at 3350 fps but I do not list that as an average rifle velocity a guy might expect out of that cartridge.
Basically you need to decide exactly what the top priority is you want out of this rifle and focus on that. More barrel life or 800 yards instead of 1000 for instance. That could change your caliber right off the bat. Less expensive for reloading to shoot a lot for practice. Think about these things and don't pick a caliber yet until you decide exactly what your priorities are.
I have read over the velocities reported on here. I own several of these rifles that have been discussed and have shot them all since the 70's except the 7mm-300 winchester. I haven't done that one since the 70's going for the more powerful 7 stw and 7mm-300 wby. With the new long high bc vld bullets available now the 300 winny necked down has a resurgence because it is a shorter case and will feed these long bullets easier. With the stw and wby they are single shot pretty much. I would not expect to get 3000 fps with a 180 grain bullet out of a 7mm rem mag or 3200 fps out of a 7mm-300 winchester. Some rifles may get that but the averages will fall short. I will admit my loads were worked up before some of the newer powders and bullets were available. Using the 175 grain SGK which was about the best you could do for years with the 7mm. A 7mm remington would drive that bullet max on average about 2850 fps with any kind of brass life. The 7mm-300 winchester would drive it around 3050 fps tops. So evidently some of the newer powders are bringing new life into these older cartridges. Or, as in the case of some of my rifles, they are hitting on the high side of the velocity spectrum.
I have some that just shoot way beyond where they should and have built a few for other people. Like a 300 winchester that shoots 180 grain bullets 3350 fps and a 300 wby shooting them 3400 fps accurately without pressure signs. About 200 fps beyond where they should be. I wish I knew what made these rifles do that because I could make a mint. Some of the velocities listed in the threads could be from very fast barrels. From my experience though and the powders I have used these are not the velocities an average guy could expect from these cartridges. I am not saying these guys did not get what they say because fast barrels happen. I just think the average barrel may be less than that.
I just wanted to add a 300 winchester with 180 grain bullets will average 3150 fps top end. Reducing the caliber to .284 (7mm) will reduce that velocity significantly. I have numerous 7mm STW's and 7mm-300 WBY's. They all will average around 3200 fps with a 175 grain SGK tops on average. These are more powerful rifles than the smaller 7mm-300 winchester. So that is what I am basing this on. I do have one really fast 7mm-300 wby at 3350 fps but I do not list that as an average rifle velocity a guy might expect out of that cartridge.
