Lead poisoning from eating game shot with lead core bullets?

[rammac]

The following are some examples of peer-reviewed articles extracted from empirical data sources.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?type=printable&id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005330

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/43176483/GUNSHOT_WOUNDS_A_SOURCE_OF_LEAD_IN_THE_E20160228-16615-1kbjy27.pdf?1456707923=&response-content-disposition=inline;+filename=Gunshot_Wounds_a_Source_of_Lead_in_the_E.pdf&Expires=1592456294&Signature=F9BSXmewl6cwrDjZDWAP9G4KKlWtdJDSX1P8CmQi~poQkcCi7dJM376KyD~q-p5wzys~xq10ES5HtI5jXxslJWBG6e0B-DyewvVhDq74IS9JH0XyUS1o6YO-6Th9uEW9mJ29eUMTJB0Bo~1bMHaoSHGgOgusbCCNo6lJHKiDHM2RL4DVuQcNqv-NoxPZBcI3crdCvmkJ2L4-OXEXsKromCh~xeLkxyK3Q3rajyVAhisyXTL4OW0EgapUv~VKhjPBb5vbbvL9oALKIBg~U~GImxJxbBEYW5BtPmDRuILOqd4871EbyPX1LSQUScyHpPsxQITfx8Z0afZPrezHMgSG4Q__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00128-009-9647-2

https://science.peregrinefund.org/legacy-sites/conference-lead/PDF/0307 Tranel.pdf

I'm not a scientist but I have experience reading technological and scientific papers. That being said;

Your first link was a valid study result but it really didn't prove that animals taken with bullets were a potential source of health threatening lead poisoning. There are several points that I think make the study questionable.

1. The study says that all weapons used to take the animals were 7mm Mag rifles using 150gr cup and core style ammunition. Toward the end of the paper they mention that some of the meat used to feed the pigs with had bird shot in it. Just how accurate was their data when they claim that only bullets were used and yet they offhandedly mention that bird shot was in the meat.

2. Their experimental method was to take game killed and field dressed by average hunters to a game processor who then processed the meat and then they fed the contaminated meat (identified by radiographic methods) to pigs. They then tested the lead levels in the pigs for 8 days after being fed the meat.

A. They didn't verify that the meat that they turned in was the same meat that they received from the processors - could that explain why they found shotgun pellets in some of the meat that was, supposedly, all taken with 7mm Mag rifles.​

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B. They fed the pigs almost 3 pounds of meat in one 24 hour day. Even accounting for the weight differences between the pigs and the average person, that would mean that we would have to eat around 1 1/2 lbs of contaminated meat in one day. Who eats 1 1/2 lbs of meat in a day. And even if you do eat that much meat in a day, how much would actually be contaminated with lead from a kill, I suspect not as much as what those pigs were fed.​

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C. Their final conclusion was that the pigs that ate the contaminated meat showed lead blood levels of as high as 3.8 micro-gram/dL for one pig with an average of around 2.2 micro-gram/dL . The report states that the CDC says that lead blood levels in children becomes dangerous at 10 micro-gram/dL . What's more, the pigs only showed the higher levels for the about 3 days after ingesting the meat. So, in order to reach the CDC level that is dangerous for a child, the child would have to eat an average of 5 1/2 lbs of meat in a 24 hour period every three days in order to sustain a health threatening blood lead level. For an adult we would probably have to eat much more. And we would have to ensure that all of that meat was contaminated with lead. I find that pretty hard to imagine.​

I couldn't get to your second link, I don't know if it is dead or if my security software prevented me from getting to it but I couldn't check it out.

Your third link required me to pay for the report and I'm not about to do that so I couldn't read it but the summary that was available for free states that the report concludes that

Thus, we would advise that the tissue surrounding the wound channel be removed and discarded, as this tissue may be contaminated by lead bullet fragments.

That's not really anything that seems to be news to anybody that hunts game nor does it seem to conclude that eating game could cause lead poisoning.

Your fourth link doesn't really prove anything, it's just a summary of other papers and studies, it's simply a reference resource for the The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (MDNR). Quoting from other studies doesn't prove anything without including the process and conclusions.

 

[rammac]

From 1975 through 2000 I was exposed to carcinogenic jet exhaust on a daily basis. I'm 63 years old now and I still don't have any kind of lung disease (knock on wood) but that doesn't prove anything, it's purely anecdotal.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

I ate 3 pounds of summer sausage this weekend lol

B. They fed the pigs almost 3 pounds of meat in one 24 hour day. Even accounting for the weight differences between the pigs and the average person, that would mean that we would have to eat around 1 1/2 lbs of meat in one day of meat that was contaminated with lead. Who eats 1 1/2 lbs of meat in a day. And even if you do eat that much meat in a day, how much would actually be contaminated with lead from a kill, I suspect not as much as what those pigs were fed.​

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[FEENIX]

I'm not a scientist but I have experience reading technological and scientific papers. That being said;

Your first link was a valid study result but it really didn't prove that animals taken with bullets were a potential source of health threatening lead poisoning. There are several points that I think make the study questionable.

1. The study says that all weapons used to take the animals were 7mm Mag rifles using 150gr cup and core style ammunition. Toward the end of the paper they mention that some of the meat used to feed the pigs with had bird shot in it. Just how accurate was their data when they claim that only bullets were used and yet they offhandedly mention that bird shot was in the meat.

2. Their experimental method was to take game killed and field dressed by average hunters to a game processor who then processed the meat and then they fed the contaminated meat (identified by radiographic methods) to pigs. They then tested the lead levels in the pigs for 8 days after being fed the meat.

A. They didn't verify that the meat that they turned in was the same meat that they received from the processors - could that explain why they found shotgun pellets in some of the meat that was, supposedly, all taken with 7mm Mag rifles.​

​

B. They fed the pigs almost 3 pounds of meat in one 24 hour day. Even accounting for the weight differences between the pigs and the average person, that would mean that we would have to eat around 1 1/2 lbs of meat in one day of meat that was contaminated with lead. Who eats 1 1/2 lbs of meat in a day. And even if you do eat that much meat in a day, how much would actually be contaminated with lead from a kill, I suspect not as much as what those pigs were fed.​

​

C. Their final conclusion was that the pigs that ate the contaminated meat showed lead blood levels of as high as 3.8 micro-gram/dL for one pig with an average of around 2.2 micro-gram/dL . The report states that the CDC says that lead blood levels in children becomes dangerous at 10 micro-gram/dL . What's more, the pigs only showed the higher levels for the about 3 days after ingesting the meat. So, in order to reach the CDC level that is dangerous for a child, the child would have to eat an average of 5 1/2 lbs of meat in a 24 hour period every three days in order to sustain a health threatening blood lead level. For an adult we would probably have to eat much more. And we would have to ensure that all of that meat was contaminated with lead. I find that pretty hard to imagine.​

I couldn't get to your second link, I don't know if it is dead or if my security software prevented me from getting to it but I couldn't check it out.

Your third link required me to pay for the report and I'm not about to do that so I couldn't read it but the summary that was available for free states that the report concludes that


That's not really anything that seems to be news to anybody that hunts game nor does it seem to conclude that eating game could cause lead poisoning.

Your fourth link doesn't really prove anything, it's just a summary of other papers and studies, it's simply a reference resource for the The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (MDNR). Quoting from other studies doesn't prove anything without including the process and conclusions.

The studies simply acknowledges that potential lead poisoning exist but it depends on the level ingested or an individual's immune system. As with any research study, there are assumptions and limitations. If I understand you correctly, you are looking for a validation via longitudinal study. This type of research is extremely hard, expensive, and takes a long time.

As noted, what you do with the information is entirely up to you.

My sister ignored the early signs of lung cancer that eventually took her life.

It's your life, live it as you see it fit.

 

[Jonoton]

Given a choice in the matter, I'd rather not consume lead in any amount. As a little kid I fished every day, twice a day, and had a stupid habit of holding lead sinkers in my teeth while tying on lures and biting the sinker to pinch it on the line. I wish I hadn't done that! No amount of lead consumption is good, and IIRC it is cumulative. Lead free bullets are proven and viable, so for my hunting use I'll use 'em. I won't begrudge anybody for not doing so, nor will I support legislation outlawing lead ammunition.

 

[rammac]

The studies simply acknowledges that potential lead poisoning exist but it depends on the level ingested or an individual's immune system. As with any research study, there are assumptions and limitations. If I undersatnd you correctly, you are looking for a validation via longitudinal study. This type of research is extremely hard, expensive, and takes a long time.

As noted, what you do with the information is entirely up to you.

My sister ignored the early signs of lung cancer that eventually took her life.

It's your life, live it as you see it fit.

You make valid points, but that also means that while we all know that lead poisoning isn't a good thing none of your references proves that it's common to have health issues from taking game with lead bullets - which was the point of this conversation.

Your sister ignoring a health issue (my mother did the same thing) doesn't correlate in any way to the information you posted. Basically what you are saying is that while you have no real proof, you feel that there is a risk using lead bullets and you choose to not use them, that's reasonable and I don't have any problem with your decision. But my point is that, as you pointed out, there are no real studies that prove that lead bullets are harming people. If you want to play it safe then avoid using the bullets but don't quit using a lead bullet just because somebody THINKS that they MIGHT be dangerous to your health.

 

[FEENIX]

You make valid points, but that also means that while we all know that lead poisoning isn't a good thing none of your references proves that it's common to have health issues from taking game with lead bullets - which was the point of this conversation.

Your sister ignoring a health issue (my mother did the same thing) doesn't correlate in any way to the information you posted. Basically what you are saying is that while you have no real proof, you feel that there is a risk using lead bullets and you choose to not use them, that's reasonable and I don't have any problem with your decision. But my point is that, as you pointed out, there are no real studies that prove that lead bullets are harming people. If you want to play it safe then avoid using the bullets but don't quit using a lead bullet just because somebody THINKS that they MIGHT be dangerous to your health.

I never said not to use lead bullets because I still use them. How you interpret the potential of the studies is entirely up to you.

My sister's situation was not in support of the sources but rather in reference to a longitunidal study.

 

[DocDoc]

There is lead and then there are lead ions. Elemental lead, the metal, is not the problem. The metal can oxidize on the surface over time, and that could be a source of the lead ion that can denature protein in enzymes and is the real problem. That could happen for scavengers or ducks that ingest lead shot that has been exposed to air for a long time. Any elemental lead from bullet fragments should pass through the digestive system fairly rapidly.

 

[Muddyboots]

OK, maybe this will clear everything up for all to see.

 

[FEENIX]

Call me paranoid. I started using a seat belt sixty years ago. I started using mono bullets when the X bullets came out. I even wear glasses at the shooting range.

Me too! And of course, ear protection. Heck, I even wear gloves, eye, and ear protection when I mow or use any power tools. To me it is all about risk management.

Given a choice in the matter, I'd rather not consume lead in any amount. As a little kid I fished every day, twice a day, and had a stupid habit of holding lead sinkers in my teeth while tying on lures and biting the sinker to pinch it on the line. I wish I hadn't done that! No amount of lead consumption is good, and IIRC it is cumulative. Lead free bullets are proven and viable, so for my hunting use I'll use 'em. I won't begrudge anybody for not doing so, nor will I support legislation outlawing lead ammunition.

I have the same stance. As noted, I really do not care what an individual does with the information being presented. This learner is in no position to criticize any individual's stance on the subject matter or anybody's empirical data as I do not have any personal published peer-reviewed research paper. I have nothing but respect for those that managed to have their work published (literature/article, thesis, dissertation) because it is not an easy endeavor. I have been working on my research study since June of 2017 and currently going through multi-level Academic Quality Review processes and Independent Review Board. It has been a challenging but rewarding journey and the ultimate prize is almost within reach.

After 4 hours of study time since getting off work, I think a well-deserved break is in order. Cheers to all ... be safe and God bless!

 

[Quintus]

Delicious, however...there are studies that show that continuous use of alcohol in high levels could over time be related to...

 

[KurtB]

Since we have been using lead to kill animals for say 120 years now with relatively high velocity cartridges, I am sure that there are many many hunters, children, pregnant women etc that have been tested and found to have dangerously high lead levels.

Since that has not happened, I'll keep slinging Bergers at shoulders. If you don't like shooting game with lead bullets, please do not. For me, I am fine with it. Kind of like Covid and living in your basement. You do you, I'll go about my life.

This post is directed at no one in particular and just reflects my overall disgust with junk science and those pushing it to control our lives.

 

[Hawkeye Pierce]

Take it for what it's worth, this is just my choice.
I don't have a problem with lead core bullets but 2 years ago when making a nice antelope steak I bite into a substantial sized piece of lead. It came from a berger VLD Hunter shot into a beutiful quartering away at 326 yards and it liquified the chest cavity, very effective. I cut away the bloodshot meat, so when I hit the lead in my steak I got concerned. Not so worried for myself, i have other issues that are more likely to drop me before lead poisoning, but I have 3 young daughters who love meat. I mean they will run by and grab a hand full of heart fillet steak peices and never get to the table.
So I switched to barnes LRX monos, for the reduced chance of them getting something in their system that would hurt them.
Plus I was shooting a 3" group at 500 meters 2200 FPS with 200 gr .308 LRX, LOL 90 inches of drop but still accurate.

 

[ButterBean]

Used to encounter more lead pieces when I was a faithful parition user, they are designed to fragment the front half. I am somewhat of a living example of lead consumption being a deer meat consumer for 26 years now with no noticeable effects.

I don't know if i'd go as far to say no noticeable effects , just picking Brother