1:8" for 300WM: Is this too fast?

[RockyMtnMT]

I'll also chime in a bit late to the party.

Since this is a hunting forum, I will speak in area of terminal performance. Bullets that are running with higher stability will perform better on impact. The higher rotational vel will keep the bullet point on longer after impact aiding in proper bullet deformation. If a bullet is running with yaw it will cause the bullet to possibly not expand or tumble on impact. I think many of the stories that we hear about bullets not expanding properly can be attributed to not having enough stability to properly expand, not necessarily a bullet failure. In all of our bullet impact testing we found that bullets that are marginal in stability will not perform as well as highly stabilized bullets at low vel.

Most of todays well built bullets can handle the higher twist rates. Go back 10 years ago and it was much more common for jacketed bullets to come apart with faster twist barrels.

So for all the reasons that were given, earlier in the thread, recommending the higher twist rate, and for the aid it offers in terminal performance, I also recommend the 8" twist in the 300wm.

 

[David Emerson]

Hello all,

I'm eyeing the X-Bolt Stalker LR in 300WM for my hunting rifle. It has a 26" barrel with a 1:8" twist. I'm looking to shoot around the 200g mark with Accubonds. However, I'm curious... is this too fast of a twist for 200s? If not, what's the lightest/heaviest I could shoot without under/over stabilizing

I have a 1 in 11 on my 300 weatherby but I never shoot longer than nosler partitions. By berger a 10 will stabilize the 230 but barely. The ruger precision in 300prc has an eight. And will stabilize the new 250 a tip. You are better over spun than under spun.

 

[WildRose]

I'll also chime in a bit late to the party.

Since this is a hunting forum, I will speak in area of terminal performance. Bullets that are running with higher stability will perform better on impact. The higher rotational vel will keep the bullet point on longer after impact aiding in proper bullet deformation. If a bullet is running with yaw it will cause the bullet to possibly not expand or tumble on impact. I think many of the stories that we hear about bullets not expanding properly can be attributed to not having enough stability to properly expand, not necessarily a bullet failure. In all of our bullet impact testing we found that bullets that are marginal in stability will not perform as well as highly stabilized bullets at low vel.

Most of todays well built bullets can handle the higher twist rates. Go back 10 years ago and it was much more common for jacketed bullets to come apart with faster twist barrels.

So for all the reasons that were given, earlier in the thread, recommending the higher twist rate, and for the aid it offers in terminal performance, I also recommend the 8" twist in the 300wm.

Playing off of your ball here but with the minimal gain per each inch of twist I've never bought much into the theory that bullets are flying apart except for thin jacketed target/varmint bullets on rare occasions.

I have absolutely seen gain twist barrels rip them apart though. The tighter and more rapid the gain, the more likely they'll shear the jacket apart.

I have yet to see mono's do anything but get better.

 

[FEENIX]

Sorry feenix i'm late... don't know u guys .. but here where i am berger bullets are hard to find in certain weights.. so i keep shooting my hornady in 208. Or now with good results the 225gn eldx.. i go cheap on powder too. Imr 4350... i will like to keep my barrel for at least another 500 shots.. ...if i keep shooting like last year i will end up changing my barrel twice a year.. lol..

I know what you mean. The 215s and 230s are not shelf items in my local gun stores. I get mine online when/where it is available. Sometimes, one has to find the best compromise of what is available for the intended purpose/goal. Cheers!

 

[FEENIX]

That's what I was thinking. 1:10" is pretty standard for 300s and I think for a reason

Standardization is relative, in the US it's 1:10" and in the EU it's 1:11". When my SAKOM995 in .300 WM with 1:11" is due for a re-barrel, it is going to be 1:8". Don't complicate it unnecessarily, if you feel strongly with the US standard of 1"10", go for it. That's the beauty of still having choices ... it's entirely up to the end-user to have the final decision that they can live with, we can only advise. End-users need to synthesize the value of the types of information being presented.

Cheers!

 

[DJ Fergus]

Hello all,

I'm eyeing the X-Bolt Stalker LR in 300WM for my hunting rifle. It has a 26" barrel with a 1:8" twist. I'm looking to shoot around the 200g mark with Accubonds. However, I'm curious... is this too fast of a twist for 200s? If not, what's the lightest/heaviest I could shoot without under/over stabilizing

I have owned 3 x- bolts. The twist rate has been different than published on two of them. Which is not uncommon on factory rifle barrels. They would shoot equal with most other factory rifles but not nessesarily any better.

 

[Greyfox]

If I were looking for one I'd dig around till I could find a Gen2 Milspec Remington. I'm not a huge fan of remington but the Gen 2's have been awesome enough I even bought one in .260. With handloads it'll shoot .2's and .3's all day long. Everyone I know that got one in the 300wm version had excellent luck as well.

The internals, trigger etc are the same on the maxx as on the LR model.

I am in full agreement that the Milspecs are a definitely a notch above the the standard-fare Remington 700. I have owned a few in 308, and more recently acquired one in 300 WM. With a 1;10 twist(compared to the 11.25TW in 308), this rifle produces comparable accuracy, and stabilizes bullets with +1000 yard performance with my usual 200-215gr bullets used for LRH. No fuss! Scoping and measuring the BTO at +700 rounds, the the throat/barrel is as pristine as my Kreigers, holds accuracy for +200 rounds, and cleans up fast. You can't beat the flexibility of options with the 700 platform, and if the day comes where a faster twist becomes a necessity, I'll likely be ready to re-barrel anyway.....or pushing up daisies and it won't matter. IMO....

 

[Orange Dust]

I'll also chime in a bit late to the party.

Since this is a hunting forum, I will speak in area of terminal performance. Bullets that are running with higher stability will perform better on impact. The higher rotational vel will keep the bullet point on longer after impact aiding in proper bullet deformation. If a bullet is running with yaw it will cause the bullet to possibly not expand or tumble on impact. I think many of the stories that we hear about bullets not expanding properly can be attributed to not having enough stability to properly expand, not necessarily a bullet failure. In all of our bullet impact testing we found that bullets that are marginal in stability will not perform as well as highly stabilized bullets at low vel.

Most of todays well built bullets can handle the higher twist rates. Go back 10 years ago and it was much more common for jacketed bullets to come apart with faster twist barrels.

So for all the reasons that were given, earlier in the thread, recommending the higher twist rate, and for the aid it offers in terminal performance, I also recommend the 8" twist in the 300wm.

I would add to this that with cup and core bullets my experience is that twist also affects expansion. Going up a couple of inches in twist most likely will make those types of bullets expand more at close range, and continue to expand at longer range than the slower twist. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the bullet. Also, rotational velocity does not degrade at nearly the rate forward velocity does, and any explosive effect will likely be carried further downrange. Choose your bullets wisely.

 

[David Emerson]

I would add to this that with cup and core bullets my experience is that twist also affects expansion. Going up a couple of inches in twist most likely will make those types of bullets expand more at close range, and continue to expand at longer range than the slower twist. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the bullet. Also, rotational velocity does not degrade at nearly the rate forward velocity does, and any explosive effect will likely be carried further downrange. Choose your bullets wisely.

well said

 

[WildRose]

I am in full agreement that the Milspecs are a definitely a notch above the the standard-fare Remington 700. I have owned a few in 308, and more recently acquired one in 300 WM. With a 1;10 twist(compared to the 11.25TW in 308), this rifle produces comparable accuracy, and stabilizes bullets with +1000 yard performance with my usual 200-215gr bullets used for LRH. No fuss! Scoping and measuring the BTO at +700 rounds, the the throat/barrel is as pristine as my Kreigers, holds accuracy for +200 rounds, and cleans up fast. You can't beat the flexibility of options with the 700 platform, and if the day comes where a faster twist becomes a necessity, I'll likely be ready to re-barrel anyway.....or pushing up daisies and it won't matter. IMO....
View attachment 169481 View attachment 169482

Honestly I've gotten over the bug long ago about always pushing the heaviest possible bullet for a given caliber.

let's face it. Till you get beyond 600yds, there's not enough difference between bullets with a .495 BC and another with a .600bc performance wise to really show.

Even out to 1,000 that difference is pretty negligible as long as you have a good drop card for the elevation and conditions or good data to plug into your ballistics calculator for a good shooting solution.

When you get to shooting beyond a thousand things get much more complicated and you want absolutely ever advantage you can get.

With the exception of my 6.5's I see all the performance I can appreciate with mid range bullets and even with the 6.5's I'm perfectly content with the 130's and 140's even with the Mono's and for the mono's the Peregrine VLR5 123grain shoots far better than the numbers say it should with pretty much unrivaled terminal velocity in both my .260's, .264wm, and 6.5 LRM.

If I want to shoot heavier than 140's I have 7mm STW's, if I want to shoot heavier than 180gr, I have the .300wm's and 300 Rum's. If I want to shoot 230's or heavier all the way to 400gr's I have the .375's.

It's really easy hanging around here to get stuck on fad's and we have a new fad here about every 3-6 months.

Fad's are inherently short lived, expensive, and in the end unsatisfying which is why they fade.

 

[David Emerson]

Honestly I've gotten over the bug long ago about always pushing the heaviest possible bullet for a given caliber.

let's face it. Till you get beyond 600yds, there's not enough difference between bullets with a .495 BC and another with a .600bc performance wise to really show.

Even out to 1,000 that difference is pretty negligible as long as you have a good drop card for the elevation and conditions or good data to plug into your ballistics calculator for a good shooting solution.

When you get to shooting beyond a thousand things get much more complicated and you want absolutely ever advantage you can get.

With the exception of my 6.5's I see all the performance I can appreciate with mid range bullets and even with the 6.5's I'm perfectly content with the 130's and 140's even with the Mono's and for the mono's the Peregrine VLR5 123grain shoots far better than the numbers say it should with pretty much unrivaled terminal velocity in both my .260's, .264wm, and 6.5 LRM.

If I want to shoot heavier than 140's I have 7mm STW's, if I want to shoot heavier than 180gr, I have the .300wm's and 300 Rum's. If I want to shoot 230's or heavier all the way to 400gr's I have the .375's.

It's really easy hanging around here to get stuck on fad's and we have a new fad here about every 3-6 months.

Fad's are inherently short lived, expensive, and in the end unsatisfying which is why they fade.

well SAID

 

[David Emerson]

Honestly I've gotten over the bug long ago about always pushing the heaviest possible bullet for a given caliber.

let's face it. Till you get beyond 600yds, there's not enough difference between bullets with a .495 BC and another with a .600bc performance wise to really show.

Even out to 1,000 that difference is pretty negligible as long as you have a good drop card for the elevation and conditions or good data to plug into your ballistics calculator for a good shooting solution.

When you get to shooting beyond a thousand things get much more complicated and you want absolutely ever advantage you can get.

With the exception of my 6.5's I see all the performance I can appreciate with mid range bullets and even with the 6.5's I'm perfectly content with the 130's and 140's even with the Mono's and for the mono's the Peregrine VLR5 123grain shoots far better than the numbers say it should with pretty much unrivaled terminal velocity in both my .260's, .264wm, and 6.5 LRM.

If I want to shoot heavier than 140's I have 7mm STW's, if I want to shoot heavier than 180gr, I have the .300wm's and 300 Rum's. If I want to shoot 230's or heavier all the way to 400gr's I have the .375's.

It's really easy hanging around here to get stuck on fad's and we have a new fad here about every 3-6 months.

Fad's are inherently short lived, expensive, and in the end unsatisfying which is why they fade.

Monkey see monkey do.

 

[FEENIX]

Honestly I've gotten over the bug long ago about always pushing the heaviest possible bullet for a given caliber.

let's face it. Till you get beyond 600yds, there's not enough difference between bullets with a .495 BC and another with a .600bc performance wise to really show.

Even out to 1,000 that difference is pretty negligible as long as you have a good drop card for the elevation and conditions or good data to plug into your ballistics calculator for a good shooting solution.

When you get to shooting beyond a thousand things get much more complicated and you want absolutely ever advantage you can get.

With the exception of my 6.5's I see all the performance I can appreciate with mid range bullets and even with the 6.5's I'm perfectly content with the 130's and 140's even with the Mono's and for the mono's the Peregrine VLR5 123grain shoots far better than the numbers say it should with pretty much unrivaled terminal velocity in both my .260's, .264wm, and 6.5 LRM.

If I want to shoot heavier than 140's I have 7mm STW's, if I want to shoot heavier than 180gr, I have the .300wm's and 300 Rum's. If I want to shoot 230's or heavier all the way to 400gr's I have the .375's.

It's really easy hanging around here to get stuck on fad's and we have a new fad here about every 3-6 months.

Fad's are inherently short lived, expensive, and in the end unsatisfying which is why they fade.

Again, end-users need to synthesize what is being presented. What other people call a fad others call it progress. Over a hundred years ago, our venerable .30-06 (1906) also was a fad and the even earlier, the nostalgic 6.5x55 Swede (1894) across the pond. Today, they still excess and still going strong. Introduced 11 years ago, the 6.5 CM (2008) labeled hyped or a fad today. Hornady's success with 6.5 did not happen overnight but it revolutionized excellent marketing research, strategy, and implementation; a collaborative effort with other gun and shooting related companies and pioneers; and overwhelming shelf support of their product. Hornady's marketing team is envy (or hated by competitors depending on perspective) by most companies. The 6.5 CM renewed interest in the hunting/shooting world esp. first-time end-users. Yes, I own all three chamberings noted above.

Having plenty of choices and having the freedom to choose is awesome. It boils down to personal preference and intended use. I for one is thankful that there are companies that are taking the risk for us to provide us alternatives/options, esp. small businesses such as our very own LRH members Hammer Bullets, Sherman Wildcats, etc. I'd rather have these so-called fads available for me than not.

Choices, choices, choices ... it's what makes America great, let's embrace it and move forward! Cheers!

 

[Orange Dust]

Again, end-users need to synthesize what is being presented. What other people call a fad others call it progress. Over a hundred years ago, our venerable .30-06 (1906) also was a fad and the even earlier, the nostalgic 6.5x55 Swede (1894) across the pond. Today, they still excess and still going strong. Introduced 11 years ago, the 6.5 CM (2008) labeled hyped or a fad today. Hornady's success with 6.5 did not happen overnight but it revolutionized excellent marketing research, strategy, and implementation; a collaborative effort with other gun and shooting related companies and pioneers; and overwhelming shelf support of their product. Hornady's marketing team is envy (or hated by competitors depending on perspective) by most companies. The 6.5 CM renewed interest in the hunting/shooting world esp. first-time end-users. Yes, I own all three chamberings noted above.

Having plenty of choices and having the freedom to choose is awesome. It boils down to personal preference and intended use. I for one is thankful that there are companies that are taking the risk for us to provide us alternatives/options, esp. small businesses such as our very own LRH members Hammer Bullets, Sherman Wildcats, etc. I'd rather have these so-called fads available for me than not.

Choices, choices, choices ... it's what makes America great, let's embrace it and move forward! Cheers!

Both you and Rose are right to a point. Im old and think Rose is more right. All this marketing has been good for business, but not entirely true. Let me explain why i think this is so. The creed is a pergect example. They market it as having 300 magnum power. Use the right example bullets and energy only and they prove it. Those of us that are older all know about the old Taylor knockout formula, which takes bore dia and bullet weight into account. It is a much better guide to killing ability than energy. Use that and the difference is dramatic. So there is some kool aide there. The 28 nosler i have is nothing more than a 7stw on a shorter fatter case. I bit and built one. I could go on forever, but you get my point.