It's a very clear winner for the test we did.
I would not call it a clear winner, as it doesn't show any statistical significance until you start deleting shots. At that point one could argue that you're just massaging the data to get the result you want. ;) Throw out enough random shots and any of the methods "may" improvement.

In addition, you did not monitor/control temperature/time with the flame, so it was a subjective end point as to when it was annealed. Tempilaq, while far from foolproof, at least narrows down the working range of the time and temperature.

I think that you're best off annealing your brass, and that's the take home message from the test.
 

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I was reading a post about annealing and the vast differences shooters take regarding the subject. Some don't anneal, some anneal every 2nd or 3rd round, some burn their brass with torch heads, some use Tempilaq which by only shows you get your brass to a certain temperature, some use an AMP annealer, so I wanted to research the subject more and get to the bottom of it.

We purchased what we think is the best Annealer on the market today. We shall see.

So if you go on the amp annealing website, you will see there are different temperature settings for each brand and lot of brass. Each brand of brass uses a slightly different ratio of copper to tin, which means a different temperature setting for the different compositions. An example would be in .243 Winchester, Federal Brass gets a setting of 59, Winchester brass gets a setting of 67 and Lapua Brass gets a setting of 93. Settings vary with neck thickness of your brass and also from lot to lot within a manufacturer.

I have a turn table type annealer with multiple torch heads that is a pain to setup for different types of calibers. It's not easy to use but I had some decent results with it.

I think what we are going to see in this upcoming test is that there is no way a shooter can return the neck hardness to factory spec using torch head annealers. Brass requires different temperatures to anneal and all tempilaq does is tell you for example you reached 750 degrees but what if Lapua brass requires 1200 degrees. (Just an example)
Temperature isn't the only consideration for proper annealing as the duration of exposure to a said temperature is very important.

We are going to start with 6 groups and all new Hornady brass. We will use a Ruger Precision Rifle in .243 winchester and will record extreme spread and standard deviation with a Magneto Chronograph for every group fired. Each group will have 5 shots and here is a list of the groups we will shoot, then it will continue with 5 shots each using different methods.

Group Annealing
1. 5 shots new brass, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP

2. 5 shots new , no, AMP, no, no

3. 5 shots new , torch head, torch, torch, torch

4. 5 shots new , no, no, AMP, no

5. 5 shots new , no, no, no, no

6. 5 shots new , torch head Tempilaq, TH Temp, TH Temp, Th Temp


Group one will get the Amp Annealer after every firing
Group two will get the Amp Annealer after every 2 firings
Group three will get the torch head annealer after every firing
Group four will get the Amp Annealer after every 3 firings
Group five will get no annealing all the way through the test
Group six will get the torch head annealer with tempilaq after each firing


It will be interesting to see the results. My personal thoughts are we will see rising velocities in the brass that's not annealed with high extreme spreads.

I think the 2nd and 3rd firing guys are going to see erratic extreme spreads and velocity but not as bad as not annealing at all.

I think the torch head annealers will work but not as good as the AMP and I don't think Tempilaq is going to do much at all.

Just my thoughts, that's why we're testing :)

We will hopefully get most of this done in the next 2 days.

Thank you for the work you are doing on annealing. I am having a 6.5Gap made and am told I should anneal the Hornady brass after 3 rounds. Therefore, I have purchased the annealing components but have not used them yet. Very interested in your findings. Also, very timely!
 
Thanks for taking the time to test and post results. As for me I think I'm sticking with annealing. The amp makes it so simple
 
The obvious take away is that it is better to anneal than to not if you plan on doing any long range work and reload to do it.

Thank you sir for taking the time to post this!
 
I think plugging all the numbers into one of those simulators would be a good idea. I don't have a program for that.
 
I spoke to Richard Window about the tests he ran. I asked him about annealing after two firings of not annealed brass. I advised him I saw two very good 5 shot groups of SD and ES that came from brass that wasn't annealed until after the second firing. He stated that was common after annealing. So I am going to do one more test, with the anneal after two firings group. This group had an SD of 1 and and SD of 3 which were the 1st and 3rd best groups out of the 25-5 shot groups. Once the new brass was fired (fireformed), the next 5 shot group didn't do very well if the brass wasn't annealed for the next firing. The amp and torch annealing 2nd firing groups all had respectable es and sd, but the 3-5 shot groups that were not annealed after there first fireformed shot were not good at all. The three groups had extreme spreads of 46,33,31. I think if I anneal that group after the first firing and then anneal after the next two firings it will beat the AMP annealing group of annealing every time. I will try to do this today.

I am going to use the same new Hornady brass. This group will look like this.

Group 1 5 shots of new brass not annealed
Group 2 5 shots Amp annealed
Group 3 5 shots not annealed
Group 4 5 shots not annealed
Group 5 5 shots Amp annealed

I will try and get a 6th round but I doubt the brass will make it.
 
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I just got a response back from Alex Findlay from Amp annealing. I asked him about sharing some data and annealing every few firings.

Here is a response I got:

"We haven't specifically tested annealing every third reload. That would extend your case life, but it wouldn't give you the full accuracy benefits of annealing every reload. Once you start using our annealer you will find it is so easy that you will want to incorporate it into every reloading cycle"
 
You're using the $1,100 AMP annealing machine? Maybe Hornady needs to buy one of those.
 
Finally getting around to read this and have an interesting thing I learned from it Id like to share.

I recently bought a box of Hornady 243win 58gr. Superformance varmint ammo from Scheels. The rifle is a 243 Ackley improved.

The other day I had a piece of brass have this same failure mark show up on the case after firing. The round audibly popped and smoke puffed from the action too. The case extracted in one piece but had the ring you're experiencing at roughly 5 firings. It was exactly that light color ring in exactly that same spot from ammo that was new from the factory. I pried on the case and it snapped right at that ring. It appeared that the case was very very thin walled at that section but I wasn't sure if this was due to the chamber being an Ackley and the case stretching so much.

Moral of the story? Hornady brass continues its reputation of being junk I guess....
 
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