AMP Annealer VS No annealing Vs Torch Head Annealer Vs 2nd/3rd Shot

[Pdvdh]

I'd settle for all of those ES/SDs.
Seems that they all do better after some exercise!

 

[J E Custom]

I believe that any form/method of annealing is best as long as it is done correctly but only when needed. Different chambers and loads should determine when. Annealing can increase case life as long as you keep track of your firings on a particular loading. (A mild loading doesn't need to be annealed as often as a max load) but annealing can and often does change you load quality and you have to adjust it to get the best results.

Like anything else in reloading, a single change in the loading process can change the performance of your favorite load. In cases where the brass is readily available and cheep, it may be best to shoot it until it is fixing to fail and discard it.

With expensive, hard to get brass, I feel it is wise to anneal after 2 to 4 shots depending on the pressure of the load.

Which process is best ? the one that is the most consistent and affordable when done correctly.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Rick Richard]

I believe that any form/method of annealing is best as long as it is done correctly but only when needed. Different chambers and loads should determine when. Annealing can increase case life as long as you keep track of your firings on a particular loading. (A mild loading doesn't need to be annealed as often as a max load) but annealing can and often does change you load quality and you have to adjust it to get the best results.

Like anything else in reloading, a single change in the loading process can change the performance of your favorite load. In cases where the brass is readily available and cheep, it may be best to shoot it until it is fixing to fail and discard it.

With expensive, hard to get brass, I feel it is wise to anneal after 2 to 4 shots depending on the pressure of the load.

Which process is best ? the one that is the most consistent and affordable when done correctly.

J E CUSTOM

Sorry buddy. So use to pressing a "like" button, but now I see it says "unlike". I don't LIKE that feature.

 

[Just cut]

Great test thanks for taking the time and sharing all your work and information with everyone.

 

[IdahoMan]

Thanks for the time, effort, and cost you are providing for this test. I am looking into annealing my brass and the information in this thread is helping me understand what type of annealer and how to use if I decide to purchase. Thanks again for doing this test and the contributing comments.

 

[SnowDingo]

So I just shot the group that hasn't been annealed, this will be four firings, best sd and Es so far.

ES of 9 and SD 3

I read on Peterson cartridge web page they have an article, what happens to case neck tension after repeated firings. The article is fairly short but shows that un-annealed brass after 4 firings the neck tension levels off. The test was with 308 casings and fired them 10 times.

Kinda fallows your findings with un-annealed brass so far.

 

[jdmecomber]

Thanks for the time, effort, and cost you are providing for this test. I am looking into annealing my brass and the information in this thread is helping me understand what type of annealer and how to use if I decide to purchase. Thanks again for doing this test and the contributing comments.

Your welcome to all, I think MOST guys that shoot competition don't want to share. I understand for obvious reasons, but I don't shoot competition so I am more than willing to share.

I want to thank everyone who supported my business. If it wasn't for people buying targets, I could never get these fancy tools.

This hornady brass isn't doing very well. I am five firings in and cases are about to separate above the case head. Picture included. This is the Amp annealed every firing group, 3 are about to come apart. I could probably fire one more time.

Thanks again.

 

[jdmecomber]

T

Your welcome to all, I think MOST guys that shoot competition don't want to share. I understand for obvious reasons, but I don't shoot competition so I am more than willing to share.

I want to thank everyone who supported my business. If it wasn't for people buying targets, I could never get these fancy tools.

This hornady brass isn't doing very well. I am five firings in and cases are about to separate above the case head. Picture included. This is the Amp annealed every firing group, 3 are about to come apart. I could probably fire one more time.

Thanks again.

The group that was annealed after 2 firings just shot an ES of 2 and SD 1 for five rounds!!

 

[jdmecomber]

T


The group that was annealed after 2 firings just shot an ES of 2 and SD 1 for five rounds!!

Look at this? Only 5 firings and most of this brass is toast. This is the SD 1 group.
4 pieces are done

 

[jdmecomber]

I read on Peterson cartridge web page they have an article, what happens to case neck tension after repeated firings. The article is fairly short but shows that un-annealed brass after 4 firings the neck tension levels off. The test was with 308 casings and fired them 10 times.

Kinda fallows your findings with un-annealed brass so far.

That not annealed group just shot a 29 Es and 11 Sd. I would like to shoot it again but this brass is junk. I might be able to get 3 at least for a 6th firing.

 

[Konrad]

Please keep us posted on your results. My own personal research on annealing left me with a decision to purchase new brass on the forth firing or ditching the brass when two necks out of 50 cracked on resizing!

Thanks,
Konrad

I was reading a post about annealing and the vast differences shooters take regarding the subject. Some don't anneal, some anneal every 2nd or 3rd round, some burn their brass with torch heads, some use Tempilaq which by only shows you get your brass to a certain temperature, some use an AMP annealer, so I wanted to research the subject more and get to the bottom of it.

We purchased what we think is the best Annealer on the market today. We shall see.

So if you go on the amp annealing website, you will see there are different temperature settings for each brand and lot of brass. Each brand of brass uses a slightly different ratio of copper to tin, which means a different temperature setting for the different compositions. An example would be in .243 Winchester, Federal Brass gets a setting of 59, Winchester brass gets a setting of 67 and Lapua Brass gets a setting of 93. Settings vary with neck thickness of your brass and also from lot to lot within a manufacturer.

I have a turn table type annealer with multiple torch heads that is a pain to setup for different types of calibers. It's not easy to use but I had some decent results with it.

I think what we are going to see in this upcoming test is that there is no way a shooter can return the neck hardness to factory spec using torch head annealers. Brass requires different temperatures to anneal and all tempilaq does is tell you for example you reached 750 degrees but what if Lapua brass requires 1200 degrees. (Just an example)
Temperature isn't the only consideration for proper annealing as the duration of exposure to a said temperature is very important.

We are going to start with 6 groups and all new Hornady brass. We will use a Ruger Precision Rifle in .243 winchester and will record extreme spread and standard deviation with a Magneto Chronograph for every group fired. Each group will have 5 shots and here is a list of the groups we will shoot, then it will continue with 5 shots each using different methods.

Group Annealing
1. 5 shots new brass, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP

2. 5 shots new , no, AMP, no, no

3. 5 shots new , torch head, torch, torch, torch

4. 5 shots new , no, no, AMP, no

5. 5 shots new , no, no, no, no

6. 5 shots new , torch head Tempilaq, TH Temp, TH Temp, Th Temp


Group one will get the Amp Annealer after every firing
Group two will get the Amp Annealer after every 2 firings
Group three will get the torch head annealer after every firing
Group four will get the Amp Annealer after every 3 firings
Group five will get no annealing all the way through the test
Group six will get the torch head annealer with tempilaq after each firing


It will be interesting to see the results. My personal thoughts are we will see rising velocities in the brass that's not annealed with high extreme spreads.

I think the 2nd and 3rd firing guys are going to see erratic extreme spreads and velocity but not as bad as not annealing at all.

I think the torch head annealers will work but not as good as the AMP and I don't think Tempilaq is going to do much at all.

Just my thoughts, that's why we're testing

We will hopefully get most of this done in the next 2 days.

 

[Pdvdh]

This Hornady brass isn't doing very well. I am five firings in and cases are about to separate above the case head. Picture included. This is the Amp annealed every firing group, 3 are about to come apart. I could probably fire one more time.

Never seen an incipient case head separation that far from the web of the case before. Every case head separation I've seen in the past occurs much closer to the case web. Just another indication Hornady is doing something different - compared to other brass manufacturers. And the different isn't resulting in higher brass quality.

Again... Hornady brass sucks eggs...

 

[jdmecomber]

Fifth Firing is complete 22 pieces of brass are junk. I have to say I am surprised by that. I got almost double with LAPUA. Keep in mind with this fifth firing all the brass was on its last firing.

Group 1 Amp annealed 5x
1 2890 ES 13 SD 5
2 2887
3 2882
4 2881
5 2877

Group 2 new brass, fired, annealed, fired, fired
1 2889 ES 2 SD 1
2 2887
3 2887
4 2889
5 2887

Group 3 Torch annealed 5x
1 2885 ES 19 SD 7
2 2879
3 2874
4 2868
5 2866

Group 4 new brass, fired, fired, annealed, fired
1 2879 ES 27 SD 10 A high shot maybe failed brass?
2 2881
3 2902
4 2883
5 2875

Group 5 No annealing
1 2899 ES 29 SD 11 A low velocity shot maybe failed brass?
2 2884
3 2870
4 2884
5 2897

I will organize all the data and try to figure out what I would do at this point.

 

[jdmecomber]

Never seen an incipient case head separation that far from the web of the case before. Every case head separation I've seen in the past occurs much closer to the case web. Just another indication Hornady is doing something different - compared to other brass manufacturers. And the different isn't resulting in higher brass quality.

Again... Hornady brass sucks eggs...

Here I thought I was doing a good thing using Hornady instead of the much cheaper winchester