All around rifle help please

[wackinandstackin243]

Getting a great all around rifle all depends on how many times you want to cry and upgrade. Going against the saying about buying the best and only crying once can cost a fortune.

As far as the stocks you said you prefer you might want to look into Hill Country Rifle Harvester model with the Precision Stockworks rifleman stock. Or you can buy a base model and have them accurize it into the stock. Never bought one of their rifles, but I did just get one of the stocks to have my local gunsmith put a winchester 300wsm into it.

 

[catorres1]

Getting a great all around rifle all depends on how many times you want to cry and upgrade. Going against the saying about buying the best and only crying once can cost a fortune.

As far as the stocks you said you prefer you might want to look into Hill Country Rifle Harvester model with the Precision Stockworks rifleman stock. Or you can buy a base model and have them accurize it into the stock. Never bought one of their rifles, but I did just get one of the stocks to have my local gunsmith put a winchester 300wsm into it.

This is something I will look into. I actually live fairly close to them, have had them do work for me long ago. They were ALOT cheaper in those days.

I saw one of their rifles with a cool stock on it the other day, but the shop selling the rifle thought it was a proprietary item, I did not know it could be bought separately.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out!

 

[jsthntn247]

Why not just get a Tikka t3 or a Remington sps long range. The sps long range already has the stock you want. However, the stock you want is your biggest downfall, it weighs about 3lbs and puts you over your specified weight limit. IMO a 7lb 300 win is going to kick your teeth out.

 

[catorres1]

Why not just get a Tikka t3 or a Remington sps long range. The sps long range already has the stock you want. However, the stock you want is your biggest downfall, it weighs about 3lbs and puts you over your specified weight limit. IMO a 7lb 300 win is going to kick your teeth out.

Ha ha, funny you say this, these were my thoughts exactly when I started, so we think alike!

After I got my CTR, I thought....perfect, now I'll get a T3 in 300, put the same M40 on it and be in business.

But after doing some net research, it turns out the magazine length for a 300 in a T3 is really short, barely SAAMI as I remember when I measured it at the store (same for the A7 BTW). It's fine for shorter bullets, but if I want to shoot, say Berger 215's, it's a no go. In addition, its an 11 twist as I remember, so again, not so good for the larger longer bullets. And I want that flexibility should I decide to do that in the future. That really frustrated me, as that was my perfect plan right there.

So then I moved to the Long Range Rifle....weighed one at Cabelas....9.5lbs. So with my scope and rings, and a base, I'd be looking at over 11lbs. Too much for me to haul around,.

I did look at a REALLY nice 5r that had that M40....but it was 9lbs and a little too unbalanced for me due to the weight being too much in the barrel. Otherwise, I'd own that. I thought about putting a PSW stock on it with edge fill, weighs less than 2 lbs. But I can't afford the stock, and it would be terribly unbalanced.

As for weight, since I want to both hunt with it, but also range shoot it, I prefer a little extra weight, especially in the barrel. But my difficulty has been trying to determine how much is too much (or too little) of a good thing.

I don't like 7lb 22's even...I can't get steady. I like somewhere in the 8's and 9's, it seems. So that puts me at a naked rifle weight at 7-8lbs ish.

You mention the stock...I agree, it's a difficulty, but there is no choice...it's what fits and that's most important to me. There is one solution, but I can't afford it...Precision Stock Works Rifleman stock....I think that would fit great, but it starts at $600, and as it's made by McMillan...well it will take forever to get one.

So what else fits? M40's second and Weatherbys third. I personally like Vanguard actions alot, so right now, that's the direction I am heading.

Unless something else comes to mind (that I can afford!), I am torn between a range certified vanguard...9lbs with scope.....or an Accuguard 9lbs 5 oz with scope.

The RC, I can actually go down 12 oz on by switching for the back country stock if I want, but don't think I really need to do that, though it would be a nice option.

I really prefer the accuguard at this point due to it being stainless, and the heavier fluted barrel. I really like the rifle.

The only reason I still consider the RC is I like the tested accuracy, having been burned in the past. The ability to find and pick a target that I am happy with is worth something to me...but I have only found one so far that is onsite (as opposed to at the warehouse) so I could examine the target...it's target was .72 with 168 grainers. Barely makes the RC cut, not enough for me to jump on it when other samples are in the .4's and .5's. Weatherby tells me .75 is the cut off, so not too impressed by this sample's target for the cost, though in this case, it's not that much more than a standard VGD with a BC stock added.

If there were an RC accuguard, that would be at my house now. The contour of the barrel is a nice compromise between standard sporter and heavy countour, the stock fits, it's stainless for corrosion resistance, pretty much fits what I, personally, think I want.

At least today

 

[roninflag]

weigh a sendero? and 6.5-20 leup (1"). and a pair of lt weight rings and bases.

8.5 lbs. and 15.60 ounces.

 

[catorres1]

8.5 lbs. and 15.60 ounces.

Ron,

Do you have a 300 win mag Sendero? I have not been able to locate one anywhere that I could actually weigh (or have weighed by the shop). If you have one in 300 and have weighed it, I'd be interested to hear the weight.

This is important to me because I have not found manufacturer's weights to be entirely reliable.

For example, I found the Rem LRR to weigh not the 9 they claimed but fully 9.5.

The acusport 5r that I love (which appears to have the same contour as a sendero and is likewise fluted and 26") weighed 9lbs. Honestly, I think that it is the same barrel contour, etc...

So does a Sendero really weigh 8.5 lbs? As I mentioned, the 5r I weighed was 9 flat, and from what I can read has the same taper as the sendero. On the other hand, it has the stock that I want on it, the M40, and maybe the sendero stock is lighter...I just don't know. So without weighing all the parts, its not a leap I can take.

BTW, my Zeiss was supposed to weigh 18 oz, but it weighed 21 because it was the lock-plex version, even though they told me on the phone (Zeiss) that there was no weight difference.

On the other hand, Weatherby quoted the Accuguard as 8.75lbs. But one in 300 win mag only weighed 7 and 14 oz., slightly less actually.

Go figure....but one thought I have is to get that 5r and shoot it as is for now. Eventually, sell the M40 stock, and pick up a PSW edge fill Rifleman's stock. These are made by McMillan and standard weight is supposed to be 32 oz, edge fill is 26. That's a really light stock. Only thing is....the balance will be atrocious, so I don't think that will work.

But overall, the Sendero HS Precision stock will not work for me, its a poor fit. It would have to go, so honestly not sure that's a good option even if a Sendero weighs 8.5 lbs. And I'd still be looking at a 10 lb rig.

With the accuguard, because of it's medium heavy countour, I am at 9 and 5 as it is...with an edge fill McMillan, I could probably drop another 8-10 oz's.

That said, just from a visceral perspective, I still like that 5r best....

 

[wackinandstackin243]

I talked to the guy at Precision stock works last week and a remington sporter contour would be about 4 weeks then. I didn't ask about a varmint contour. I should get mine back from the gunsmith ths week and I am excited to try it.

One other thing with heavy barrels and light stocks is they are horrible to carry. They are top heavy and want to slide back on your shoulder. Make sure your barrel and stock balance.

 

[roninflag]

I talked to the guy at Precision stock works last week and a remington sporter contour would be about 4 weeks then. I didn't ask about a varmint contour. I should get mine back from the gunsmith ths week and I am excited to try it.

One other thing with heavy barrels and light stocks is they are horrible to carry. They are top heavy and want to slide back on your shoulder. Make sure your barrel and stock balance.

i carried a sendero bighorn sheep hunting. no problem.

 

[roninflag]

Ha ha, funny you say this, these were my thoughts exactly when I started, so we think alike!

After I got my CTR, I thought....perfect, now I'll get a T3 in 300, put the same M40 on it and be in business.

But after doing some net research, it turns out the magazine length for a 300 in a T3 is really short, barely SAAMI as I remember when I measured it at the store (same for the A7 BTW). It's fine for shorter bullets, but if I want to shoot, say Berger 215's, it's a no go. In addition, its an 11 twist as I remember, so again, not so good for the larger longer bullets. And I want that flexibility should I decide to do that in the future. That really frustrated me, as that was my perfect plan right there.

So then I moved to the Long Range Rifle....weighed one at Cabelas....9.5lbs. So with my scope and rings, and a base, I'd be looking at over 11lbs. Too much for me to haul around,.

I did look at a REALLY nice 5r that had that M40....but it was 9lbs and a little too unbalanced for me due to the weight being too much in the barrel. Otherwise, I'd own that. I thought about putting a PSW stock on it with edge fill, weighs less than 2 lbs. But I can't afford the stock, and it would be terribly unbalanced.

As for weight, since I want to both hunt with it, but also range shoot it, I prefer a little extra weight, especially in the barrel. But my difficulty has been trying to determine how much is too much (or too little) of a good thing.

I don't like 7lb 22's even...I can't get steady. I like somewhere in the 8's and 9's, it seems. So that puts me at a naked rifle weight at 7-8lbs ish.

You mention the stock...I agree, it's a difficulty, but there is no choice...it's what fits and that's most important to me. There is one solution, but I can't afford it...Precision Stock Works Rifleman stock....I think that would fit great, but it starts at $600, and as it's made by McMillan...well it will take forever to get one.

So what else fits? M40's second and Weatherbys third. I personally like Vanguard actions alot, so right now, that's the direction I am heading.

Unless something else comes to mind (that I can afford!), I am torn between a range certified vanguard...9lbs with scope.....or an Accuguard 9lbs 5 oz with scope.

The RC, I can actually go down 12 oz on by switching for the back country stock if I want, but don't think I really need to do that, though it would be a nice option.

I really prefer the accuguard at this point due to it being stainless, and the heavier fluted barrel. I really like the rifle.

The only reason I still consider the RC is I like the tested accuracy, having been burned in the past. The ability to find and pick a target that I am happy with is worth something to me...but I have only found one so far that is onsite (as opposed to at the warehouse) so I could examine the target...it's target was .72 with 168 grainers. Barely makes the RC cut, not enough for me to jump on it when other samples are in the .4's and .5's. Weatherby tells me .75 is the cut off, so not too impressed by this sample's target for the cost, though in this case, it's not that much more than a standard VGD with a BC stock added.

If there were an RC accuguard, that would be at my house now. The contour of the barrel is a nice compromise between standard sporter and heavy countour, the stock fits, it's stainless for corrosion resistance, pretty much fits what I, personally, think I want.

At least today

i do not have the 300 wm now. but i have a 7mm , and a 6.5-284. my brother has a .264, and 300 rum. my buddies have others. they all have scopes and brakes. if the stock wont work for you then you will have to try something different. i use scopes with a 40 or 44 objective so they do not have to be mounted so high ., the sendero stock is straight and low for a lanky guy. . those scopes tend to be lighter than the 50-56s.

 

[catorres1]

I talked to the guy at Precision stock works last week and a remington sporter contour would be about 4 weeks then. I didn't ask about a varmint contour. I should get mine back from the gunsmith ths week and I am excited to try it.

One other thing with heavy barrels and light stocks is they are horrible to carry. They are top heavy and want to slide back on your shoulder. Make sure your barrel and stock balance.

So I noted that they only make them for Winchester, Rem and then higher end actions. But I wonder if you could purchase one flat-topped, and then have them inletted by a gunsmith? Is that what you are doing?

Or is it limited to the actions they listed on their site, whether they inlet for you or not?

I am with you on the balance, that's what keeps me from the 5r..diameter of the barrel is .820 at 26", same as a Sendero. There is a lot of meat there.
Put that into a light 26 or 32 oz stock, and I think it will end up being very unbalanced.

And really, that's what this whole exploration is about for me...what are the limits and compromises one makes? There is no one right setup, but within the parameters that an individual seems to want, what is the best way to achieve that.

The accuguard and accumarks have 24" barrels that are .704 or maybe it was .740. Anyway, they are a medium heavy contour. A compromise between the sporter and the heavy contours. It provides a different gun balance, but also a 'purpose' balance. I read an article that described the accumark as having sporter attributes, not designed solely as a tactical rifle, but can still do the job, while still working as a walking rifle.

A compromise, for certain. Its not the 6lb mountain rifle, nor the 11.5 pound long ranger, but a balance of the two. For some, that's not what they are looking for, but it may be just what I need. And how it carries on the shoulder and shoots offhand needs to be one part of the consideration for me, hence my concern about the point you raise about heavy barrels in very light stocks.

 

[catorres1]

i do not have the 300 wm now. but i have a 7mm , and a 6.5-284. my brother has a .264, and 300 rum. my buddies have others. they all have scopes and brakes. if the stock wont work for you then you will have to try something different. i use scopes with a 40 or 44 objective so they do not have to be mounted so high ., the sendero stock is straight and low for a lanky guy. . those scopes tend to be lighter than the 50-56s.

Yeah, I read an article from John Barsness, I think it was, talking about stock design, and how there is a trend that most follow, but for some people it just does not work.

Long and short, I am one of those people for whom the 'classic style' is really quite uncomfortable. I suffered through it for years because I was brought up with guys for whom a straight combed M70 was religion, and monte carlos or any deviation from that formula were signs of satanic meddling with proper stock design.

But through a combination of having to shoot some different rifles, particularly a weatherby vanguard, and reading outside the box, I realized why my kneck hurt and I always had to have my stocks lengthened to keep from punching myself in the nose.

LONG and short...like John's mentioned in his article, the 'classic' style does not work for some body types, and I am one. I need a fair bit of drop at heel and toe, coupled with a high comb in order to bridge the distance from my shoulder to my cheek without having to strain my kneck to reach the comb. I have a thin face...so a cheekpiece is also very helpful for proper eye alignment.

Take all those pieces together, throw them in a bag, and what you get is something like a weatherby, an M40 (wish it had a cheek piece!), PSW rifleman...and a relatively high mounted scope. Most rifles, I find myself looking at or over the top of the scope, not the bottom, unless I press myself uncomfortably into the comb.

Anyway, all that is to say, I need something out of the norm to be comfortable, so the HS stock wont work, but there are good alternatives, especially those setup for tactical rifles because those high combs give me something to connect to much more comfortably than a low one.

BTW, you said you hauled a Sendero up a sheep mountain...pretty impressive!

You still have one in 7 mag, do you know what it weighs naked?

 

[bruce_ventura]

If you like Vanguards, what about a Howa stainless? Replace the trigger and add a Karsten cheek rest. Other possible mods include a spacer to increase the LOP, and cutting off 2-4" of barrel to improve stiffness and reduce weight. You could have the muzzle threaded for a brake at the same time.

There is a good chance you will have a <1 MOA rifle that meets your weight requirement of 7-8 lbs and can be adjusted to fit your frame. It may not look as pretty as your favorite stock profile, but would it work?

 

[jsthntn247]

Ha ha, funny you say this, these were my thoughts exactly when I started, so we think alike!

After I got my CTR, I thought....perfect, now I'll get a T3 in 300, put the same M40 on it and be in business.

But after doing some net research, it turns out the magazine length for a 300 in a T3 is really short, barely SAAMI as I remember when I measured it at the store (same for the A7 BTW). It's fine for shorter bullets, but if I want to shoot, say Berger 215's, it's a no go. In addition, its an 11 twist as I remember, so again, not so good for the larger longer bullets. And I want that flexibility should I decide to do that in the future. That really frustrated me, as that was my perfect plan right there.

So then I moved to the Long Range Rifle....weighed one at Cabelas....9.5lbs. So with my scope and rings, and a base, I'd be looking at over 11lbs. Too much for me to haul around,.

I did look at a REALLY nice 5r that had that M40....but it was 9lbs and a little too unbalanced for me due to the weight being too much in the barrel. Otherwise, I'd own that. I thought about putting a PSW stock on it with edge fill, weighs less than 2 lbs. But I can't afford the stock, and it would be terribly unbalanced.

As for weight, since I want to both hunt with it, but also range shoot it, I prefer a little extra weight, especially in the barrel. But my difficulty has been trying to determine how much is too much (or too little) of a good thing.

I don't like 7lb 22's even...I can't get steady. I like somewhere in the 8's and 9's, it seems. So that puts me at a naked rifle weight at 7-8lbs ish.

You mention the stock...I agree, it's a difficulty, but there is no choice...it's what fits and that's most important to me. There is one solution, but I can't afford it...Precision Stock Works Rifleman stock....I think that would fit great, but it starts at $600, and as it's made by McMillan...well it will take forever to get one.

So what else fits? M40's second and Weatherbys third. I personally like Vanguard actions alot, so right now, that's the direction I am heading.

Unless something else comes to mind (that I can afford!), I am torn between a range certified vanguard...9lbs with scope.....or an Accuguard 9lbs 5 oz with scope.

The RC, I can actually go down 12 oz on by switching for the back country stock if I want, but don't think I really need to do that, though it would be a nice option.

I really prefer the accuguard at this point due to it being stainless, and the heavier fluted barrel. I really like the rifle.

The only reason I still consider the RC is I like the tested accuracy, having been burned in the past. The ability to find and pick a target that I am happy with is worth something to me...but I have only found one so far that is onsite (as opposed to at the warehouse) so I could examine the target...it's target was .72 with 168 grainers. Barely makes the RC cut, not enough for me to jump on it when other samples are in the .4's and .5's. Weatherby tells me .75 is the cut off, so not too impressed by this sample's target for the cost, though in this case, it's not that much more than a standard VGD with a BC stock added.

If there were an RC accuguard, that would be at my house now. The contour of the barrel is a nice compromise between standard sporter and heavy countour, the stock fits, it's stainless for corrosion resistance, pretty much fits what I, personally, think I want.

At least today

So you want quarter minute guaranteed accuracy, 9lb scoped rifle, with only one stock in the universe, that's not too heavy, not too light, not front heavy, not rear heavy, and all this on a budget of 43 cents. (I'm beginning to think you're a woman). Aint gonna happen fella. Save up some more money and put one together. Get you a pawn shop Savage long action, there are always some manners T3 stocks for immediate sell on their site and this stock is what the B&C stock you want was made to look like, then call Jim at Northland shooter supply and get a Criterion 10 twist magnum sporter contour barrel with a lug and nut. When put together it will meet all your needs but is going put you in the 1200$ range, but will be a long range hammer. I just bought an older Savage long action at a pawn shop for 150$ to build a 338 edge on doing the same thing I mentioned above.

 

[roninflag]

"You still have one in 7 mag, do you know what it weighs naked? " 8.5 lbs. , but that is with the straight , low factory hs stock. light and strong. several of us have used them in 1000 yard matches. much rather have more weight and a higher comb. but they did real well . in a match you have time to adjust your cheek weld. for bighorn i new i could shoot out to 700 yards or more . lot of confidence in those big canyons. i have a 700 ti now that shoots .5 , but i have not shot past 100 with it yet. the ti i had then was .7"-1" no way i would take it.