All around rifle help please

[catorres1]

I am looking to buy an all around rifle, do anything anywhere. My last project failed as I could not get it to shoot the way I wanted without a barrel replacement, so I am very concerned about getting another rifle that does the same. One MOA, consistently, is my rock bottom requirement, and would not exactly thrill me. The why's would take too long to go through, but suffice it to say, 3 shots in 1 moa with handloads is rock bottom for what I am wanting, and would really like better.

Going semi custom at this point is probably not in the (financial) cards...just had to buy a new vehicle, so money is tight.

I have pretty much settled on a 300 win mag for this purpose, the overall flexibility wins out. I can load down to 3006 levels with lighter bullets like 168's, or up to 215's or whatever as needed.

Weight wise, I just don't know, see below. That's a major problem. This rifle will be used in everything from stands to (hopefully) chasing elk in Montana and Colorado, to Aoudad in West Texas. I have not done these things at all, the closest was crawling through canyons in west texas looking for Mouflon with a 10.25lb 375 15 years ago. It was somewhat heavy then, but not bad. But these last 15 years have been hard on me, so I don't know that's a good idea. I will say, I don't like shooting light rifles, I can't get them settled down so well, I do prefer a bit of weight and maybe a little front heavy so it 'hangs'.

Stock wise, two stocks fit me properly. The Weatherby style, and best of all, the M40. There are probably others, but they are Manners or McM...and these are too costly and hard to find for me. The standard straight comb does not work well for my build, I need a fair amount of drop at heel and toe, mated to a high comb, the higher, the better. The M40 is the best I have tried so far, if it had a cheekpiece, it would be absolutely perfect. The Weatherby comes next.

So right now, I am considering 1 Remington and 4 Weatherby choices.

But am having a difficult time picking out the best way to go rifle wise, a great deal due to the weight issue.

My number one choice is a Remington 5R I found. It was an Accusport special run with a fluted barrel, cerekoted (I believe) and an M40 stock. It is, to me, perfect and beautiful in every way...except it weighs in at just under 9 lbs naked according to the store's scale. With the HD5 I have, with rings, I am probably looking at a 10.25 to 10.5lb rifle, unloaded. That seems like way too much when people are talking 6-8lb rifles for on foot elk hunting.

For the Vanguard, there are 4 different options I am considering and I'd love some opinions.

One is an RC rifle, this one is the 'safe bet' choice. I have located one at a good price where they actually have the box right there and they sent me a scan of it's target. It was .72" with "Prograde" ammo, shooting a 168 ttsx. For an RC gun, I was hoping for better, and done with heavier bullets....180's to 215's are probably what I will shoot most. Maybe I am expecting too much, anyone know what RC's usually do accuracy wise? I was expecting something closer to .5" for the premium you pay.
Weight wise, with my Zeiss, I expect it to be right at 9lbs. I could lower that by sending it in and having the ultra-light stock put on....I dont care for the green stock anyway. So has anyone seen a lot of the RC's targets, and can you tell me how they shoot?

Second is my Vanguard heart's desire, an Accuguard. I'd cerekote it and it would be perfect. Problem is 1) the weight 2) know how it will shoot 3) Yeah, the weight. The specs claim 8.75 lbs, but it did not feel that way at Cabelas. I'll go back with a scale soon to check it for real myself. Assuming specs are right, i would be looking at a 10.25lb rifle. That's alot. I could cut that .75lbs to 9.75 by sending it to Weatherby and having the ultralight stock put on (maybe, they'd have to open the channel, and they may not be able to). But it might become badly unbalanced if I did that.

So third choice is a light rifle...a back country. If I knew for sure these would shoot well, i would probably go that route, as it's my second most liked vanguard choice. But most or all of the reviews I have read, the accuracy is not there. Only one did well, the rest were not hitting the spot for me. I wonder if that fluted barrel is just too flexible, I don't know. So that one, as beautiful as it looks, really worries me from the accuracy standpoint. And yes, I know it is 'guaranteed', but seriously, that's hard to prove/deal with. And it could pull one .99 group once with 150 grain bullets and that's it, and it will have met the requirement and I am screwed.

Last choice, econo choice...medium risk...buy a standard in either blue or stainless. Shoot it and see if it works. If it does, send it on to WB for the ultralight stock or just install a standard B&C, and go from there. My son's 270 is a consistent .5" shooter with handloads, so I could get lucky too, though pulling that off with a 300 magnum will be more of a trick. Or I could have a poor shooter that I have to sell at a loss...again. I know that's the world of rifles, but I am trying to hedge my bets here.

So what are y'all's thoughts....one...what do RC's generally get....72 does not impress me enough to jump in the car and drive 4 hours to get the one I found somewhat locally, but maybe I am jaded and...

Weight wise...what do you all think?

10.5 lbs sounds like just too much, but I just don't have the experience to make that decision. If it is not, I'm on my way to by that 5r...or at least the accuguard. But I have a feeling, from what I've read, I'll regret that weight.

Thanks!

 

[memtb]

Fancy seeing you over here!!!! Good Luck on whatever you chose for your "project" rifle. memtb

 

[Rick Richard]

To be very honest, a custom or semi custom will be the best bet to assure accuracy. If you can't go that route and have to purchase a factory rifle then you run a greater risk of owning a 'dud'.

I have had more success with Savage rifles that are sure enough shooters out of the box than most of the other manufactures. In particular the Long Range Hunter series. Two of them will shoot WAY better than .5 MOA at 300 yards. Also, I have a 5R in 308 that will shoot ragged holes at 200 yards.

As for as weight, light rifles never shoot as well at longer distances for me. This is why for my hunting rigs for either stand hunting or trekking through the mountains they will be near the 10 lb mark. If I need lighter than I will loose it through body weight (me) or from the pack.

Good luck on your quest.

 

[FEENIX]

I have had more success with Savage rifles that are sure enough shooters out of the box than most of the other manufactures. In particular the Long Range Hunter series. Two of them will shoot WAY better than .5 MOA at 300 yards.

+1 ... and they are the most DIY friendly.

.300 Win Mag is an excellent choice, it's my go to chambering from antelope to elk size game.

Good luck!

 

[StrutNut]

Im looking at the same thing you are as far as use and in a 300wm. I am getting the Savage LRH in Oct when I get my bonus. For some reason its not available I might also get the Savage Bear Hunter. I have held them both and they both get good reviews. I will be hand loading the rounds, likely going with 215 bergers. I will try a couple of other options for some close range deer hunting though. I am also pretty certain I will get the Burris XTR II SCR in mil mil.

 

[roninflag]

get a remington long range or a remington sendero. for long range weight is advantage. the sendero is only 8.5 lbs. . which zeiss scope? how much does it weigh?

 

[catorres1]

To be very honest, a custom or semi custom will be the best bet to assure accuracy. If you can't go that route and have to purchase a factory rifle then you run a greater risk of owning a 'dud'.

I have had more success with Savage rifles that are sure enough shooters out of the box than most of the other manufactures. In particular the Long Range Hunter series. Two of them will shoot WAY better than .5 MOA at 300 yards. Also, I have a 5R in 308 that will shoot ragged holes at 200 yards.

As for as weight, light rifles never shoot as well at longer distances for me. This is why for my hunting rigs for either stand hunting or trekking through the mountains they will be near the 10 lb mark. If I need lighter than I will loose it through body weight (me) or from the pack.

Good luck on your quest.

Thanks for the reply! Custom is out of the park for me at the moment. Between a new truck and surgery, it's eaten into my savings.

The rifle that fits my build best is an Acusport special run 5r that I found at a very low price (been there for a long time). It's already got the m40 that fits me, it's cerekoted, I believe. And it's (relatively) cheap.

Frankly, were weight not something I am concerned about, I would have it already, I REALLY like how it feels, even offhand, though there was not scope on it at the time I tried it. It weighs just under 9 lbs naked...like 8.75 or so, I think. I'll have to see if it is still there and re-weigh it.

So I'll mark you down in the 'heavier is doable' camp. Thanks for sharing your experience with me!

 

[catorres1]

Fancy seeing you over here!!!! Good Luck on whatever you chose for your "project" rifle. memtb

Howdy! Yeah, I came over here to get a different perspective. It tends to be a little less wild west over here too!

 

[catorres1]

+1 ... and they are the most DIY friendly.

.300 Win Mag is an excellent choice, it's my go to chambering from antelope to elk size game.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I tend to like larger bores and lower velocities...and the flexibility on this one with handloading fits my ideas....reduced recoil ammo can be bought to make it sub 3006 in recoil, but I handload, and even there, can get to 3006 velocities should I decide that's what I want, or load it up and let 'er rip.

I like the choices, and the long range ability. I am taking a class this fall to get back into shooting shape....I'll be using a CTR in 260 for my main rifle, but would like to have the 300 there as well, ideally in the identical stock with an identical trigger pull, and similar scope.

 

[catorres1]

get a remington long range or a remington sendero. for long range weight is advantage. the sendero is only 8.5 lbs. . which zeiss scope? how much does it weigh?

The scope is a Zeiss HD5 3-15. Unfortunately, it weighs more than I was (directly) quoted on the phone by Zeiss before I bought it. Maybe it's because it's the Lock Plex version, don't know.

It's on my Tikka right now with some decent rings, can't remember the brand at the moment. Weight with the rings, IIRC, was 21-23 oz's.

Not happy about that, but there it is.

My plan is to move it over to the 300, and then put a 5-25 of the same brand and operation on the CTR, so another HD5 with lock plex.

Globally, the ideal is two rifles both with the same stock, trigger and same-ish scope.

One is the Tikka CTR in 260, which I can use for most of what I do here, and the other is the 300, which should also be able to do most of what I do, but have the horsepower for the next level as well.

The only fly in the ointment is that M40 just fits so nicely that I really want it, plus it's the only viable change option for me on the Tikka CTR....and they only make it for heavy barreled rifles. So it's a weight problem, and I am trying to see if it's really a problem.

I have carried a 10.5 lb rifle hunting canyons in West texas in summer heat. But that's certainly not the west, so I cannot judge how I'll do carry that kind of weight in Montana, for example.

Scope wise, I wish I could cut that weight....but even if I had, say, a 16 oz scope, I'd still be looking at probably 20ish ounces, so I am not sure that really makes much of a difference...and I chose the HD5 after a lot of research based on some features that were key to me....price being, unfortunately, important, but a couple other things too. If I had to do it over again, I don't know that I could come up with a viable alternative that I could afford, and that also cut down weight significantly. So I probably still have the best choice that I can afford. If I could, a Leica ERi would be great, but that's just too much for me.

Anyway, thanks for the reply and the advice!

 

[catorres1]

Well, a little update. I went with a digital scale today and weighed a few rifles that I liked.

My favorite, the Acusport 5r with the M40 weighed 9 lbs exactly with a 26" fluted barrel. With my scope and rings, that would make right at 10.5 lbs. That seems pretty excessive.

Just for fun, I weight a Rem Long Range rifle. It hit 9.5. Not interested.

I also weighed a Weatherby Accugard. It weighed 7lbs 14 ounces. With my scope and rings, that would hit 9lbs 5 ounces.

5R

My favorite is still the 5r because the stock fits me the best, its already cerekoted, and I hope it will have the best accuracy potential. In addition, it will be identical stock-wise to the CTR stock I will be getting...B&C just contacted me today to let me know the designing is done, but it will be early 2016 before they have space on the production schedule. But it is coming. So I would have what I want...two near identical setups. One smaller bore, one bigger bore.

I would just switch out the trigger, maybe skim bed it, and be done. So it ends up the cheapest option too between the accugard and it. But the weight, about 1.25 additional pounds, you can feel it because really affects the balance due to the very heavy barrel. I would cut it back to 24", but I don't think you can do that due to the fluting, but I may be wrong. Anyway, I doubt 2" of barrel is going to help much weight wise, and then you mess up the cerekote too.

Accugard

The accugard would need to have the stock lengthened for me (it's a little shorter LOP than the 5r, need .25 to .5 added). That degrades the stock feel a bit because the cheek piece is kinda small, so you are more at the back of it now than in the middle of the meat, but it's pretty good. The other downside is that it would not give that identical feel I was hoping for with the CTR, but it's the best I can do.

It too would need a new trigger so it's consistent with my CTR, and as it's only pillar bedded, I would have it skim bedded and maybe have the forearm reinforced a bit, as it was not as stiff as I think it should be. All that will add a couple ounces, but I can't see it going over 9.5 lbs.

Worst of all I will want it cerekoted, which is pricey. So the accugard will end up being a couple hundred more or so than the 5r when all is said and done.

But it's upsides, noticably lighter. Not just the weight, but the balance. It was only slightly front heavy compared to the 5r. I was easily able to hold it one handed to my shoulder by the pistol grip while I measured distance to my nose, or tucked fingers between it and my shoulder to simulate extra LOP, etc. I did so for several minutes straight, no problem. I think it's because the balance is a little more neutral, but that might even out between the two rifles when the scope is added, I don't know.

So there it is at the moment. I just got back, so I have not processed very far, but I am pretty sure one of these two is going to be the one.

The only other choice that someone brought up would be if I can find a Sendero. I'd have to swap the stock, change the trigger and cerekote. But I understand they are a lighter contour than the 5r, super accurate, but very pricey, especially considering the great deal I currently have on the 5R.

So putting that aside for a second....thoughts on the other two, especially especially considering the weight difference of 1-1.5 lbs?

 

[memtb]

Yes, these folks seem to be "slightly" more refined! memtb

 

[roninflag]

weigh a sendero? and 6.5-20 leup (1"). and a pair of lt weight rings and bases.

 

[catorres1]

weigh a sendero? and 6.5-20 leup (1"). and a pair of lt weight rings and bases.

That might be tough. I have not personally seen a Sendero in years. I'd have to find one online in a shop, probably, and ask them to weigh it.

But I suspect the cost would make the idea prohibitive....new stock, new trigger, bedding, cerekote.

Probably be the cost of a semi custom, I would guess.

But I'll look around and see what I can find.