Zero at 100 Yards and Leave Turret at 200 Yards for Hunting?

[remingtonman_25_06]

Unless your rifle shoots in the same exact holes at 100 yards, it's pretty hard to get an actual dead on 100y zero that will be accurate all the way out when dialing. I've thought what I had was a great 100y zero, only to have it be 2-3-4" off at 300 yards already, wonder how far itd be off at 1K...These guys that say they zero at 1.7" high at X distance are kinda funny really...So you're telling me you're putting the middle of all your bullets, EXACTLY at 1.7" lol ok...I've about had enough of this thread. It's just easier for me to zero at 200 or 300, and know I'm starting off on a better track windage and elevation wise as the range increases. I know I'm not the only one who sees it that way and does it that way. So again, I use what works for me, and makes me confident. You can have your 100y zero if that's what works and makes you confident, but it's hardly the only way, or right way to do things.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Back in the day we would zero at 25 yards and almost every magnum is really close at 300. Put it foot over animals back at 500 was very effective

 

[memtb]

Where Should I Zero My Rifle? - Christensen Arms

christensenarms.com

By no means a trainer, but I'm always trying to learn, evolve, get better. So I listen to the guys that do do this for a living.

Phil Velayo, Caylen Wojcik, Frank Galli, Jeff Broz, Brian Litz all have shot and seen more rounds put down at long range than most of us, all advocate 100 yd zeros when using a modern scope with external elevation adjustments. I used to zero at 200, but I did the research, listened to their reasoning behind it, it's not their opinions, it's based on facts, and it works. I've gotten better and more proficient. Don't be scared of new ideas or ideas that challenge yours. It's all good

This is not meant as an attack on you, merely using your post as a basis for my comment!

Without knowing the history of these shooters, I'll ask this.....are they hunters or shooters? In real world hunting situations, I believe that having a zero somewhere beyond 100 yards is infinitely desirable! With a zero beyond the 100 yard mark.....it substantially lengthens the "hunters" range to quickly place shots on big game. If the animal is beyond the "point-blank" range of the cartridge/rifle, the "hunter" should have adequate time to plug in all of the necessary values to achieve the shot. Unless the game being fired upon is considerably smaller than deer and larger game....a few inches off of the "perfect" placement is inconsequential!

The targets that "hunters" hunters encounter at ranges under 400 yards.... often may "not" afford the "hunter" with sufficient time to deploy all of the technology ( range, shot angle, temperature, barometric pressure, wind angle/velocity, ect.) the bipod, mono-pod, for a surgically placed shot! The guys that shoot steel or paper, rarely have mere seconds to get a shot downrange on a moving or soon to move target! Jus' say'n! memtb

 

[73driver]

I get the arguments, but I'm perfectly happy with my 200 yard zero. My rationale is this.....

Within 300 yards, my ability to quickly estimate range is decent. Out past 300, I'd rather use a rangefinder. Far away, animals aren't usually aware and aren't usually moving. Up close, you might not have time for more than a quick shot. Out west, 200-300 yard shots are common. If I zero at 200, I know I'm golden for everything up to 300 or so. No thinking, no ranging, no turning turrets. Even here, in wide open country, 80% of the critters I've shot have been inside of 300 yards. For hunting, I'm happy turning knobs out to 600.... maybe 800 if conditions are perfect and the animal is calm. Errors between a 100 and 200 yard zero are pretty negligible out to 800. 1/2 MOA at 800 is still a dead deer or elk. Beyond 800, ALL of the little errors start to stack up and it ALL starts to matter.

Zeroing at 300..... not a big fan. It only extends your PBR another 50 or 100 yards, and beyond 300, I'd rather range it anyhow. It's too easy to guess poorly. It also puts you several inches low at 100 or 200. For meat animals, I like headshots, and that's just too far off.

Zeroing at 100 and leaving it set for the 200 mark is a reasonable compromise, but it's nice to just to go the zero-stop and know you're good to go out to 300 (80% of my hunting situations).

Real nice buddy. Good to see you have so much respect for others on here. Anyways, no body ever told you or anyone to do anything, just a few other perspectives to the discussion. Wasn't trying to hijack anything.

The thing you keep saying that I don't quite grasp is how a 100 yd zero isn't influenced by atmospheric conditions and 200 magically is... Yes at 200, any potential shift would show up more than at 100, because it experiences those conditions over twice the distance, but it's not magically shifting because the zero range is at 200- yards. Imho a 200-yd zero makes any issues more detectable than at 100, BUT it's not fundamentally less accurate, unless that zero is set on a day with conditions drastically different than those expected in the field. Like it or not, a rifle with a 100-yd zero would experience the same 'shift' at 200, would it not? Therefore, how is truly more 'accurate' down range to zero at 100 instead 200? Just because a 'shift' might not show as significantly at 100, doesn't mean it's not there, and could result in compounding error just the same. I may just be a dumb fud, but physics is physics...

Again, I'm not calling anybody wrong or calling anyone names over something so silly, and I do understand that a 100 yard zero can be easier to achieve and may prove more convenient to many shooters, but there's no need to condemn folks that employ slightly different concepts than you. At the end of the day, we're all just trying to send rounds down range as accurately as we can.

The change in impact because of different Density Altitudes is less with a 100 yards zero than with a 200 yards zero. The whole point is that a 200 yard zero has a greater built in error potential than a 100 yard zero. So for shooting/hunting with a scope that is capable of dialing up for the range you are shooting to, a 100 yard zero has less error. Each individual is capable of deciding what is best for their own purposes. It depends on what you are comfortable with, what kind of scope and what & how far you are shooting. I personally like the zero at 100 and when I set out to hunt I dial in the correction for a 200 yard hold. My son and I used this a couple of years ago, he got set up on his rifle (with a dial up for 200y already set) and I used a LRF and dope card (dope card pre made morning berfore for the current conditions) and I gave him his dial up, 4.75 MOA, all he had to do was take the dial from 1.5 and set it at 4.75 and he got a perfect hit on his buck. It did help that I had been shooting in PRS matches for several years and he had just finished an Army enlistment as a sniper. So high comfort level with using scope with turrets. When I hunt with duplex or reticle marks and non dialing turrets then yes a 200 yard zero is what I use. The point Clark33 is making is correct, the error introduced by dialing up from a 200 yard zero will be greater than the error from a 100 yard zero. How much error will depend on what cartridge and bullet you use, how big a DA (Density Altitude) change and how far you are shooting. Out to 500-600 yards the error might not add up to much but you will more exact with a 100 yard zero. Its like saying that 1.2 inch group at 100 yards is good enough so why bother getting your handholds down to .75 at 100 yards. If you still do not see it then check out my post #67, I think that gives a explanation.

 

[Mike Matteson]

These threads blow my mind. How can something so simple get so convoluted? There isn't one good reason for a zero other then 100 yards. You want a 200 yard zero? Click click click click, Voila! It's that easy!!!

Not all have scopes are able to do that, and it's not really needed, the ranges are held down to under 500yds, with a rifle that's velocity that's about 3200fps. From what I have read even scope that state you can do that, by turning the nob aren't very accurate. It wasn't to much money, it's was the lack of understanding of his rifle and bullet flight. Just nobody worked with him to understand what needed to be, and what didn't have to happen. he was stuck between knowing that his scope could be adjusted, and his range finder. Believing he needed to adjust at every distance. The animal was shot, and then move, he would range and adjust his scope, and the animal would move again, back to the range finder. The animal keep moving until it moved out of sight about 150yds away. Sad, and somebody needed to work with him at the range for him to get a full understanding of his rifle. He lived in Europe and I am on the west side of the U.S. So I couldn't work with him. It wouldn't be the first person that I have help over the years. Hopefully I haven't met the last person to help either. A GREAT DAY IS WHEN YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW, OR TEACH SOMEBODY SOMETHING NEW.

 

[Plowboy85]

My personal protocol is 100yd zeros across the board and typically will go ahead and make elevation adjustments to reflect its MPBR. All of my scopes are NF so I'll set the zero stop to go past the zero about half a revolution and of course the zero is 100yd. If I need to make adjustments for 600yd or 9.8 MOA for example and my MPBR was already set at 250ish or 3MOA up then I'll just add to what is already there in the elevation which would be 6.8MOA If it is a quick shot and I don't have time to adjust I'll hold in the scope. I have yet to have a scenario that this caused an issue. I do understand some guys don't have zero stop scope or scope turrets that are not able to be set to zero during initial sighting in. Just this past weekend we were hunting the Missouri rut and I seen a good buck at 150ish then lost him in the brush because of the hot doe, he popped out at a tree line that was 340. I knew my MPBR distance so just held the upper area of the lung because I knew I'd be a touch lower on impact but had no time for looking at range card. Practice practice practice is how we get better, take the time to setup and shoot multiple distances in no rhythm always taking your scope back to the zero location you wish to set as your reference. I friend and I typically sip on a few cold beers and will range a gong for the other and go through the exercise of looking at dope card or making a quick holdover then executing the shot, it's simple but it builds a procedure and confidence in yourself.

 

[73driver]

Unless your rifle shoots in the same exact holes at 100 yards, it's pretty hard to get an actual dead on 100y zero that will be accurate all the way out when dialing. I've thought what I had was a great 100y zero, only to have it be 2-3-4" off at 300 yards already, wonder how far itd be off at 1K...These guys that say they zero at 1.7" high at X distance are kinda funny really...So you're telling me you're putting the middle of all your bullets, EXACTLY at 1.7" lol ok...I've about had enough of this thread. It's just easier for me to zero at 200 or 300, and know I'm starting off on a better track windage and elevation wise as the range increases. I know I'm not the only one who sees it that way and does it that way. So again, I use what works for me, and makes me confident. You can have your 100y zero if that's what works and makes you confident, but it's hardly the only way, or right way to do things.

Very good point, if you are going to zero at 200 yards then better to shoot at 200 yards rather than shoot at 1.7" hi at 100 and call it good. It is odd that you could be on at 100 and so far off at 300, but I do like how you eliminated the issue.

 

[User4302021]

Well I'll be damned, I must be doing everything wrong then this whole time!! I've killed animals out to 1150 yards with my 300y zero and dialing, but dont tell them that, cause its wrong ya know... I can go out anyday of the year and ring my 1K gong, again with my 300y zero that should be off according to you and all these so called "experts"...hahaha smfh, you are almost too funny!! You do your 100y zero and I'll continue to do my 300y zero, and have ZERO issues killing whatever I wish to shoot at, end of story

Honest question...

What do you gain by calling 300 yards "0" over calling 100 yards "0"?

If you called 300 yards 3.5MOA... exactly what would that change other than the numbers you are referencing on the scope?

You realized that it takes exactly the same amount of adjustment either way right? You don't gain any further amount of adjustment by "zeroing" further out.

The difference is that when you dial back to your zero stop you will not be able to go back to 100 yards. So if your scope gets knocked around and you have to rezero, then you won't be able to readily tell whether you are "on" or not without some way to measure your point of impact offset accurately in a field situation.

 

[Lobber]

The change in impact because of different Density Altitudes is less with a 100 yards zero than with a 200 yards zero. The whole point is that a 200 yard zero has a greater built in error potential than a 100 yard zero. So for shooting/hunting with a scope that is capable of dialing up for the range you are shooting to, a 100 yard zero has less error. Each individual is capable of deciding what is best for their own purposes. It depends on what you are comfortable with, what kind of scope and what & how far you are shooting. I personally like the zero at 100 and when I set out to hunt I dial in the correction for a 200 yard hold. My son and I used this a couple of years ago, he got set up on his rifle (with a dial up for 200y already set) and I used a LRF and dope card (dope card pre made morning berfore for the current conditions) and I gave him his dial up, 4.75 MOA, all he had to do was take the dial from 1.5 and set it at 4.75 and he got a perfect hit on his buck. It did help that I had been shooting in PRS matches for several years and he had just finished an Army enlistment as a sniper. So high comfort level with using scope with turrets. When I hunt with duplex or reticle marks and non dialing turrets then yes a 200 yard zero is what I use. The point Clark33 is making is correct, the error introduced by dialing up from a 200 yard zero will be greater than the error from a 100 yard zero. How much error will depend on what cartridge and bullet you use, how big a DA (Density Altitude) change and how far you are shooting. Out to 500-600 yards the error might not add up to much but you will more exact with a 100 yard zero. Its like saying that 1.2 inch group at 100 yards is good enough so why bother getting your handholds down to .75 at 100 yards. If you still do not see it then check out my post #67, I think that gives a explanation.

Thank you for the well-thought out and respectful response! Perhaps the gap in earlier conversation is that I do not hunt in drastically different DA than where I shoot at the range, most of the time. And when I do, I do check zero in that environment before hunting. One of my recent harvests was a mature bull elk at 650 yds, which equated to an 11.25-minute adjustment from my 200 zero with that rifle. Made a perfect shot and the bull didn't take a step. Now, had I had a 100-yd zero, that would have added an additional 1.5 minute adjustment... not really a big deal, but again, preference. Zeroed the rifle at about 6000' and shot the bull around 8000' elevation. Perhaps DA would have caused significant deviation well beyond that range, but I haven't personally experienced it.. If I had sighted in at sea level, and come up to 8000' I would expect to see some deviation and perhaps higher error with a 200-yd zero based on your explanation.

 

[Rifleman97]

Everyone seems to have commented every opinion possible already, but here's what I do. I don't target shoot much closer than 200 yards anyways, and when I do it's just to check my zero before moving out to range.

Depending in what the gun is used for I do different things, but for my big game (deer, elk) gun I zero for 250, because any shot closer than that barely shoots high enough to make a difference on game. I just aim a tad low when at close ranges. Hitting 2" high when aiming center of kill zone makes almost no difference. Then I don't have to remember how much to dial for 200, and can just leave the turret on the zero.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

A 300 yard zero allows me to hold dead on from 0-350 and not have to worry about anything in a quick hunting situation where you dont have time to range or dial. A 100 yard zero does not give you that flexibility if an animal jumps up at 250-350 you're going to hit quite a bit lower than POA. So I'm gaining quite a bit in the real world of hunting where everything isnt always perfect, so I gain about 100-150 yards in a quick situation...Basically Im just using a MPBR until I need to start dialing. Again, people can do whatever they want. A 100y zero DOES NOT work for me where I hunt, plain and simple. A 300y zero is much more practical for where I hunt big game, and I dont need or want to worry about ranging and dialing for a quick shot, or have to remember to aim X amount of inches high when something busts up from 250-350 yards. I like to hold center mass and know I'll be in business. Not that difficult to understand.

 

[SammySTW]

30-28 Nosler 215 at 3100
Sea level 100 zero - 1000 yards drops
223.38"
5000' 100 zero - 1000 yards drops 205.83
223.38 - 205.83 = 17.55"
Sea level 200 yard zero 1000 yards drops
211.08
5000' 200 yard zero - 1000 yards drops
193.90
17.08
17.55" 100 yard zero difference
17.08. 200 yard zero difference
Your arguement don't compute

I don't think that is what he was arguing at all, and I don't feel like reading past page 3 of this thread to see if yall ever got it sorted out because this is getting dumb. His point is that if you are dead on zero at 200 at sea level, and then go to the mountains, you might be off by 1/2" or more at 200, so you are NO LONGER ZEROED AT 200! If you base your calcs off of a 200 yard zero, but you're actually zeroed at 250 because you didn't rezero when you changed altitude, then your calcs will be farther off when you get out farther.
If you are dead on zero at 100 at sea level, and then you go to the mountains, you will still be dead on at 100, therefore you have a true zero and shouldn't have to change anything. I haven't tested this out for myself because I don't shoot at different altitudes, but I will take other people's word for it. Kestrel also suggests using a 100 yard zero for this same reason.
Personally, I have been zeroing my rifles at 100 with the turret set to 0. When I go hunting, I will go ahead and dial it up for a 200 yard zero, or maybe further, depending on where I am and where I expect the average shot to be.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I've never had much problem with elevation change. At the same time my shots are limited to 500yds max. Hunted from 1200' to 9,000' and killed animal at all elevation. I can see if you are shooting extend ranges there would be a great change in bullet path. I guess I do it in my mind and adjust. I started shooting back in the day when were just about only fix power scopes. I have watch the scope make major improvements over the years, and to the good. I am going to get a Nightforce 3 x 15 scope here shortly for a rifle that I am having built(6 months or so). So I will have to learn a new system. I expect it will be interesting. Again I use rifles that achieve about the same velocity, that turns into very close to the same bullet path for each rifle. I know what I need to do to adjust for ranges out to 500yds. All I am doing is pointing out what I do, and how I arrived at that, trying to help others. It may or may not help. With my rifles a 1.1 elevation at a 100yds is very close to zero at 200yds, 300yds about 5.5" low, and at 500yds is about 31" low. Out 300yds I don't have to adjust at all, and I know to elevate my rifle to shot those additional yardages. The other is I use duplex cross hairs in my scopes and where to to adjust for the different distances. That has made it a whole easier is range finders.

 

[Gills]

Zeroed my elk and mule deer rifle at 300. I found it to work best for me as a great majority of my shooting has been between 250 and 350 yards. I do still have a dial turret for the longer shots u generally have time to dial