Wondering how important die selection is?

[Big Boar]

Hey guys,

I just bought a 300RUM built by Fierce arms. This will be my first long range rig I hope. What I'm wondering about is how necessary is extremely good dies? The guy who works for gun works seems to think I should be using the Redding Type S - Match Bushing Full Die Set, Redding Titanium Nitride Neck Sizing Bushings, Redding Titanium Nitride Neck Sizing Bushings, Redding Competition Shellholder Sets - 6.

At this point I have only ever used RCBS FL resizing and seating stuff.

2 of my other buddies say not to spend that sort of money on these expensive dies as its not that much of a difference.

Can you give me your opinions? Which dies would be good enough. This is not for competition shooting, its for hunting out to 750 yards, and blasting rocks at 1000 maybe.

Cheers, Dave

 

[556]

When I started reloading 23 years ago I was told the same thing. I did not need to spend money on expensive dies. I have since changed my mind. I have an AR I use for target shooting out to 600 yards. When I built the rifle I used the dies I had on hand, a set of RCBS. I was trying to get maximum accuracy from my AR and I was struggling to achieve consistent groups. I was talking with a more experienced shooter and he told me to get a set of precision dies. I was told to use what brand I felt comfortable with, just make sure they are target/competition dies. I bought a set of Redding competition dies and my groups actually shrank and became more consistent. Understand, the dies did not solve all my issues. They did make a difference though when it comes to long range shooting precision is needed.

 

[lsm62]

I was using standard dies for all of my cartridges, now I use bushing dies on some, neck sizing on others and a full length re-size on others. As far as seating goes I prefer the micrometer seating dies. I think most brands are good to go. Just remember that some dies are designed for specific purposes, much like rifles. A generic 308 will give generic results, custom 308 will give specific results. a 308 built for CQB is going to be allot different than a 308 built for long range accuracy, just as a standard hunting 308 will be different than the before mentioned, and as with rifles some prefer Redding over RCBS and some Forster over Hornady. I have some RCBS and some Lyman, Forster and others and with proper care they all get the job done. But depending on what you want some make life allot easier.

my preference for my bolt guns are a consistent neck tension, proper shoulder bump, and proper bullet seating.

 

[RUFFIAN R - NY]

use straight dies blanks from L.E. Wilson and have dies made up as the chamber are cut by the Smith, at the same time

 

[Hard rock]

use straight dies blanks from L.E. Wilson and have dies made up as the chamber are cut by the Smith, at the same time

I've gone too redding type s bushing dies ,over standard dies . Once you fire in your chamber ,set the desired neck tension with a bushing ,remove the expander too keep a better neck alignment for less bullet run out. It works for me.

 

[Hespco]

My lee collet neck dies load ammo every bit as accurate as my Redding , Forester, or RCBS. Any time I can load sub 1/2" on a regular basis for my off the shelf hunting rifle , why do I need more. Do not shoot competition, maybe that makes a deterrence? For hunting I can see no advantage to investing in super expensive dies.

 

[milboltnut]

Hey guys,

I just bought a 300RUM built by Fierce arms. This will be my first long range rig I hope. What I'm wondering about is how necessary is extremely good dies? The guy who works for gun works seems to think I should be using the Redding Type S - Match Bushing Full Die Set, Redding Titanium Nitride Neck Sizing Bushings, Redding Titanium Nitride Neck Sizing Bushings, Redding Competition Shellholder Sets - 6.

At this point I have only ever used RCBS FL resizing and seating stuff.

2 of my other buddies say not to spend that sort of money on these expensive dies as its not that much of a difference.

Can you give me your opinions? Which dies would be good enough. This is not for competition shooting, its for hunting out to 750 yards, and blasting rocks at 1000 maybe.

Cheers, Dave

How important is the rig you bought ? That, should.. answer your question. Custom dies.

 

[RUFFIAN R - NY]

again all are not created the same: Depending on one's expectations / final results will determine ones dies. Don't get me wrong I have many Redding Comp Bushing Neck dies and Body dies and have many custom dies made up by Redding RCBS/ LE WILSON. Also off the shelf ones from above companies . A lot of differences also with the brass/ shell holders . The bullets also that's why I batch all my bullets and brass. Just check out the differences in a box of bullets !! Again what one expects makes the difference. Just like brass and manufacturer and lots of brass. When I get brass I'll get at least 300 pcs out of the same batch and as much as 1000 at a time. If its a hunter or a tactical/ LR / F-Class gun. Not to mention a BENCHREST gun. Who has the better brass ? Who has the better BEER ? Better yet who will win the SUPERBOWL ?????? . Brass Lapua , Nosler , Rem, Win, Norma, IMI, Peterson, LC, Alpha , ETC ETC. some come in soft others are harder. What one can get now tells the story also. Do you use the steel or the Nitride bushings. Do you cut the necks ? in or outside ? I'll only do the high spots now and just the high spots. Good brass is good brass , Bad brass is bad brass and can't be changed. I feel that one gets want one pays for, or can afford .

 

[RUFFIAN R - NY]

Shell Holder should stay with that set of dies, PERIOD .

 

[gpo1956]

I'vee used them all over the last 50 years. I currently use a Wilson bushing fl die and and a Redding seater. If I really really tried I could possibly tell a difference between this set up and a standard set of say RCBS dies. I think attention to detail and high grade components are probably just as important as high dollar dies for 80% of us. Buy what you want, but don't think you won't be successful if you don't use $300 dies.

 

[milboltnut]

I checked runout on the shoulder of a case with RCBS .0015, Standard FL Redding die... .0005- some.

 

[Mike D Texas]

The most accurate dies are going to be chamber style inline dies like Wilson and Whidden has recently introduced a line of them. These are use with an arbor press not a convention press like regular dies.

That said, I personally am not good enough of a shooter to recognize the difference between those style dies and regular ones of good quality. I've owned several sets of dies like your friend recommended but am currently selling them and getting into Forster benchrest and Whidden dies (mostly due to custom chamberings). Bushing dies "can" introduce run out, to what extent that matters seems to be debatable.

The reason I'm selling the Redding dies is I prefer the micrometer adjustments better on the Forster and the Widden dies look almost identical.

I do believe there is a difference between "standard" dies and "benchrest" or "competition" dies. Again how much better is debatable.

 

[Dean2]

You spent a ton on a rig to shoot long range. Buy the best dies you can find. I own RCBS dies, for loading 30-06 for a Milsurp and shooting open sights to 300 yards, they are fine. For 1000 yard rifle I use Redding, Wislon etc Competition dies. Anyone that tells you there is no difference doesn't know what they are talking about.

Resizing 460 Weatherby to 338-378. Look closely at the shoulder of the 3rd case from the right. That is a 378 Redding FL sizing die that I ran the second from the right case through. 2nd from the right is the 460 case run through the 378 seating die with the guts removed.
Now look at the 4th from right, that one is the 3rd from right run partially through RCBS 338 seating die, guts removed. Now 5th from right is 4th run all the way through the 338 RCBS seating die and 6th is run all the way in the RDBS FL sizing die.

Notice how different the shoulder on the far left finished case is compared to the 3rd from the right. 3rd has the correct Weatherby radius shoulder on it. The far left finished case has a flat conventional shoulder. Pretty clear example of the difference in the precision of the Redding versus RCBS dies. At the time the only 338-378 dies I could get were RCBS, I now have Redding dies for the 338-378.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I think you need to ask yourself what you want your dies to do. If you don't know, maybe standard dies are fine. Dies don't align to shot distance well really.

Bushing sizing dies simply allow you to adjust neck sizing precisely with the bushing. They can use the pull through expander or you can by additional dies to expand with specially sized mandrels.

Whidden dies offer both different mandrel sizes and bushing sizes….to allow more precise control of neck tension.

With bushing dies, you give up some concentricity for this and it doesn't size the whole neck.

Another neck tension control plan is Forster. Their die is fixed on the outside with variable diameter expanders. This overworks the neck, but once you determine the right expander and brass and neck thickness, you can pay them to hone for minimal sizing. This is a great option. The expander height and design gives the best concentricity in my experience.

Next you must consider the seater design. Most are just a stop that you drive the bullet against to seat it. Hornady, Whidden, Forster and some others have a sliding sleeve that centers the neck and or body in the die while the bullet is pushed against a seater plug also centered in the die. These give improved concentricity.

There are a lot of micrometers sold in bullet seating. These are mostly a waste of time. They make returning to a setting quicker, but just dialing in -0.030" from a certain point doesn't work on any brand, IME.

Probably most important thing to do with a seater is to determine if the bullet fits. If not, lap it in. This prevents bullet damage and greatly improves concentricity. Once you get a load set, I would send bullets off to have a custom seater made.