Why not H-414?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by TBuckus, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. TBuckus

    TBuckus Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that no one talks about reloading with H-414.
    Being new to reloading and with the powder being scarce, I researched powders for my wsm and 270 and found 414 to work for both with good data. But I never hear anyone talk about it.

    Is it just that there is other powder that is better?
     
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    I use lots of H 414. it is my most accurate powder in my 7/08.

    The downside to H 414 is that it is a ball powder and very heat/cold sensitive. (The POIs will change with temperature changes)

    When I can get the accuracy I prefer the extreme powders from Hodgon.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  3. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    I use it in various rifles. Keep a pound on hand. It's a velocity powder first, accuracy powder second. When I'm going to be hunting in places I know I don't have to worry about extreme accuracy, like my 60 yard shot on my SC buck last week, I like to push the bullets as fast as possible. H414 is one of my go-to powders.
     
  4. HARPERC

    HARPERC Well-Known Member

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    I've got some on hand, I haven't used it much or often, but my .375 H&H likes it. Since powder got a little scarce, I'll use it in my .223. Not a go to powder, but useful.
     
  5. TBuckus

    TBuckus Well-Known Member

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    Good to know about the 7/08. That is another gun I plan to reload for once I get some dies for it. Care to share you recipe?

    How temp sensitive is it? Realistically, around my hunting area, I'm looking at 30-75 degree temp at the extreme.
     
  6. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    try Magpro in the WSM case, and the .270 Winchester. I've had much better luck when using H414 in smaller bores.
    gary
     
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Well-Known Member

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    Didja know H-414 = W 760? They tell me it's true.

    Yep, ball powders are temp sensitive. And all I can use in one cartridge is ball pwdrs. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    The burn rates are very close, if not nearly the same. But looking in the Speer manual with 130 grain bullets in the .270 Win, I see they call out the same charge weight for max loads between the two of them. Yet there's about 80 fps difference between them with 760 being faster. In the 30-06 case length, I still like the three different 4350's (not interchangable by the way). Yet my experiments so far with Magpro clearly put it out front.
    gary
     
  9. 65WSM

    65WSM Well-Known Member

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    H-414 was a run of ball powder that Hodgdon purchased from St Marks in Florida. Roy in Idaho is right. At the time Bruce Hodgdon sought a competitor to then Olin owned "Winchester" trademarked ball powder. He just bought a batch from St Marks (which then was owned by Olin) but now is independent. Now Hodgdon owns the "Winchester" license and H-414 is redundant.

    The data for H-414 is old. It probably is not as good as published. At one time handloaders did not have chronographs. Ball powders were often overrated. I remember the fastest load in the Hodgdon book for the .264 Winchester Magnum with 140 and 120 gr bullets was with H-870 (surplus 20mm cannon powder). The book said 76 gr of this St Marks ball powder would produce 3200 fps. I found you could compress as much H-870 as you could fit in the case. I bulged the cases, popped primers and had the bullets slowly back out of the case but could never get to 3000 fps. 29 and change was as fast as I got. I even tried 1.5 gr of Red Dot over the primer trying to get the ball powder to burn in the barrel. Even velocity with 160 gr round nose was greatly below advertised.

    Hodgdon H-450 was the ball attempt to get to IMR 4831 burn rate (50 cal machine gun) It was never as fast as advertised for me. It was erratic and not very accurate.

    In the .270 WSM, I like MagPro for speed. I can get 140 gr Accubonds or 140 VLD Bergers to 3300 fps with MagPro. Zoom. I have several 300 yard groups under two inches. There may be more accurate choices but I will tolerate the accuracy of MagPro. I have tried R-25, 4000MR, VV N-560, Win 780, Retumbo, Ramshot Magnum and IMR 7828SC, MagPro is faster with the same or less pressure.
     
  10. Jcub

    Jcub Well-Known Member

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    I use 414 in my .280 ai w/ 120gr bullets with .5" accuracy at 100 yds. A friend I reload for also uses 414 in his 7-08 w/ the same bullets which gives him 1" accuracy at 100 yds. Both are max loads. I like it but prefer the extreme powders.
     
  11. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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    I like it for my 30-30 because I can fill the case with heavier bullets and not experience overpressure.
    The reason I like the case filled, is that I'd get hang-fires in my 30-06 using lighter charge weights.... even with a magnum primer.
     
  12. student3006

    student3006 Member

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    I use h414 in my 30-06 and like it so far. Pushing a 165 speer spbt with 56 gn. And am sub 1" at 100yds and I also use it for my 165 partitons at 56.5gn. And get .75" @100yds. I like it so far but I also in my first year of reloading.
     
  13. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Active Member

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    Yes, H414 = W760 verified by Hodgdon.

    H414 is very close in performance to H4350 which is what I use to load my 30-06 ammo meant for a bolt action rifle. I use H4350 over H414 because it's not temperature of position sensitive at all and H414 is. (no other reason)
     
  14. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    My 7/08 likes 49.5 grains of H 414 with CCI BR2 primers and 120 grain Ballistic tips @ 3010 ft/sec in a 20'' barrel. (These are winter time loads with 20 to 50 degree temps). Best 5 shot group to date
    was .053 thousandths (Less than 1/10th of an inch).

    In summer the velocity goes up past 3100 ft/sec but its not a problem because it is a hunting rifle
    for deer season.

    The next best load I have for it is Varget . It is not quite as accurate @ .091 but it is faster (3151 ft/sec) and is not effected by hot or cold enough to matter.

    I have not tried W-760.

    J E CUSTOM