two gun battery...6.5 creed more and 280AI??

[WildRose]

In the abstract, we can all rationalize our wants. The reality is just about any reasonable big game cartridge will kill all North American big game.

If I had wisdom that comes with age when I got in the gun buying business, I could easily live with two cartridges: something in the '06 family ('06, .280 Rem, .270 Win) and a Triple Deuce.

One would never go wrong with an '06. It has killed everything on Earth. I believe Eskimo and Inuit still use the '06 on everything including polar bear. Inuit also use a lot of the .303 British.

Our ancestors killed everything with pointy sticks and rocks, that doesn't make them the best choices particularly for "Long Range Hunting" which is what we do here and the purpose of this site.

If you're never going to shoot farther than 300yds it doesn't much matter what you are using.

Heck you can kill a moose with a .22lr if your'd close enough and can put it in the right spot but it's really not a good idea.

 

[HARPERC]

.......Heck you can kill a moose with a .22lr if your'd close enough and can put it in the right spot but it's really not a good idea..........

I had that opportunity Friday night. Smallest bull I've seen walked in behind us to within 30 feet, while we decided it was too dark to shoot the deer we spotted.

I've had one closer didn't like it that time either.

 

[ruby76]

I've shot a 280 AI for about 17 years now, killed many moose and a few deer with it. I don't shoot coyotes and we don't have antelope around here. I consider it to be one of the best all around cartridge out there. It can be loaded with lighter grain bullets for smaller game, and step up to heavier for big game, depending on barrel twist of course. 140 grain barnes has been my go to over the years. There's a great range of high quality bullets in .284, Recoil, what recoil.

I bought a 243 years ago, impulse buy, and only shot a box of shells through it. Sold it once I smartened up. Thought about a 300 mag, why, moose didnt care. My Dad used to make me sight in his 300 mag each year, not enjoyable to shoot.

My 280 AI has changed over the years to suit my shooting and hunting needs. Barrel is 24" and a little heavier profile than a light sporter, boyds pro varmint stock and a 4-16 vortex scope. Still light enough to carry, and enjoyable at the range. Although I do still think about buying a second rifle, I still consider how versatile my 280 AI is, and why I would even need a second rifle.

 

[SansSouci]

Our ancestors killed everything with pointy sticks and rocks, that doesn't make them the best choices particularly for "Long Range Hunting" which is what we do here and the purpose of this site.

If you're never going to shoot farther than 300yds it doesn't much matter what you are using.

Heck you can kill a moose with a .22lr if your'd close enough and can put it in the right spot but it's really not a good idea.

Are all of your shots beyond 300 yards?

If you saw a perfectly symmetrical 30" 4x4 muley buck at a 100 yards, would you back up 900 yards before you fired shot at him?

Extremism is logical fallacy. Writing of killing moose with a .22 is extremism. Let's stick with reasonable.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Are all of your shots beyond 300 yards?

If you saw a perfectly symmetrical 30" 4x4 muley buck at a 100 yards, would you back up 900 yards before you fired shot at him?

Extremism is logical fallacy. Writing of killing moose with a .22 is extremism. Let's stick with reasonable.

I understand what you're saying, but you do realize this is a long range forum, right?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm kinda in the process of doing the same thing. I've liquidated most of my factory rifles and am building two custom rifles to do pretty much everything.

This is what I'm doing.

Rifle 1: 243 Win built on Defiance Deviant tactical with 26" Proof Research carbon barrel in a McMillan game warden with Surgeon bottom metal topped with a NF ATACR F1 4-16x42. It will be light enough to hunt but heavy enough to shoot. It will be for predators, some varmints, deer, antelope, and in a pinch could be used for up to elk sized game. I will be shooting the 105 Berger Hybrid as it is about the best LR 6mm bullet available and works very well on game. I've been shooting this combo for years in LR target rifles with excellent barrel life with H1000 so I see no issue getting 4000+ rounds out of it as a hunting rifle. The rifle could also be used in a pinch as a backup competition rifle.

Rifle 2: 7mm Rem Mag built on a Defiance Deviant Hunter with 26" Proof Research carbon barrel in a McMillan game warden stock with Sunny Hill bottom metal topped with a NF NXS F1 3.5-15X50 although it may get a ATACR F1 4-16x42 as well. This rifle can be used for deer sized game as well, and will be my main rifle for the bigger stuff. I'm leaning towards shooting the Berger 180gr Hybrid in this rifle as long as it shoots well with the 1:9 twist barrel. Barrel life will probably be 2000rd at best but it will be a very low volume rifle so will last a long time before a rebarrel is required.

In addition to those I plan to keep my M70 Safari 375 H&H, and Kimber Montana 223 until I build a similar custom 223.

 

[Elkwonder]

redneck I am liking your choices. I have decided on the 7mmmag same as you, but the smaller gun is giving me fits. I have went back and forth between 243, 25-06 and 6.5 creedmoor. I'm literally making my brain bleed trying to decide.....lol
right now I'm leaning towards 6.5 creedmoor, but I'm sure I will change it again before bedtime tonight...lol

 

[Browninglover1]

redneck I am liking your choices. I have decided on the 7mmmag same as you, but the smaller gun is giving me fits. I have went back and forth between 243, 25-06 and 6.5 creedmoor. I'm literally making my brain bleed trying to decide.....lol
right now I'm leaning towards 6.5 creedmoor, but I'm sure I will change it again before bedtime tonight...lol

If you have a 7, a 6 of some sort is way more fun than a 6.5 as your little gun. 105s at 3100+ just make a guy smile every time you pull the trigger. If I could only own one rifle it would be chambered in a 6.5 but if I have a bigger rifle my small one would be a 6 hands down.

 

[Elkwonder]

If you have a 7, a 6 of some sort is way more fun than a 6.5 as your little gun. 105s at 3100+ just make a guy smile every time you pull the trigger. If I could only own one rifle it would be chambered in a 6.5 but if I have a bigger rifle my small one would be a 6 hands down.

What 6 are you referring to that will send 105's at 3100? The standard 243 in a 24 barrel won't do that will it?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

What 6 are you referring to that will send 105's at 3100? The standard 243 in a 24 barrel won't do that will it?

A 24" 243 will run 105 hybrids right at 3100 with H4350 before seeing pressure. With H4831 you can get at least 3200fps before pressure. Both of these will shorten barrel life to 1200-2000 rounds depending on firing schedule.

I run 26" though to run H1000 and get great barrel life. My load with 105 hybrids in lapua brass have all been started .030" off the lands (I do not load out as throat grows as it has not made a difference) and with 47.5gr of H1000 3 different barrel makers (Hawk Hill, Bartlein, Schneider) have all been 3140-3150FPS with that load and shot great with single digit ES and SD. H4350 will also run 3150 or so in a 26" but you will see about half the barrel life as you will with H1000.

One of my 26's I tested with H4831 quite a bit and saw over 3400fps and I couldn't get enough powder in to see pressure under test conditions but I'm sure it was right around the corner. The slightest introduction or moisture in the chamber or increased temps probably would have been a problem. On a 26" top tier barrel with H4831 I would say 3250fps would be about the threshold for 100% safe in all conditions. H4831 is going to smoke a barrel pretty quick though, it runs very hot compared to H1000. Even though H4831 is a slower powder than H4350, based on how quickly barrel temp rises, and how hot the brass comes out, I see nothing to indicate it would even give better life than H4350 when ran at the top of the pressure thresholds. The only advantage I see is higher case fill which has always given me better accuracy.

6mm Creedmoor, and 6mm SLR will also achieve 3100+ with 105's. There are also guys getting that out of 6x47's but most end up around 3000-3050 for best accuracy and keeping pressure safe.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

redneck I am liking your choices. I have decided on the 7mmmag same as you, but the smaller gun is giving me fits. I have went back and forth between 243, 25-06 and 6.5 creedmoor. I'm literally making my brain bleed trying to decide.....lol
right now I'm leaning towards 6.5 creedmoor, but I'm sure I will change it again before bedtime tonight...lol

I went back and forth with the same thought. I was actually just going to build one rifle in 6.5 creed for everything up to elk but I felt while it would take an elk no problem, I'd still like to have a little more gas, and I felt it was overmanned for coyotes and varmints.

Where I live over penetration on a small animal as well as riccocet on a miss is certainly more of a concern than the wide open west. A larger bullet is always going to go further in either circumstance, and a slower moving bullet (think 6.5 creed vs 243) is going to deform or fragment less on such impact making it more lethal in the worst case scenario. Sure you can use a frangible bullet and have several loads but that drives me nuts. I like having one load for a rifle. That way the is no wondering which load the turrets are currently zero'd out for, mixing up dope cards, or anything like that. One load that is going to hit the same POI every time.

That is why I decided I needed a regular use rifle in a 6mm. I chose 6mm over .224" for the ability to legally take deer in my state (and some others), and to increase ethical shot ability at further distance and on larger animals. 243 with the right bullet and a good shot is without a doubt adequate up to mule deer sized game to about 600 yards. Elk have been killed with them to the same distance and further but I'd personally get closer if I had to use it and couldn't use a bigger rifle.

In the same respect a 7mm mag isn't overgunned for deer size game or antelope, and its perfectly suitable for everything up to moose and even brown bear. I can also comfortably shoot it enough to practice with it in a ~10lbs rig with no brake needed.

For my uses if I were to choose 6.5 creed, I would have a 3 rifle battery. I would have the creedmoor for all things deer sized game because I feel the medium 6.5's are about the perfect choice for them. It could also double for elk in a pinch (would do so better than a 6mm). I would have a fast .224 for votes and speed goats, and a .300 of some sorts for bigger stuff and I feel 6.5mm and 7mm are just too close in performance for small rifle battery. But I can't shoot a 300wm that I would be willing to carry all day comfortably without a brake, and I don't believe in putting brakes on hunting rigs so this entire equation is out for me.

 

[Barrelnut]

All good choices. .243 ~ 7mag, 6.5mm ~ 300mag. Would try to discourage you from the 25-06 though. I've killed my last 10 critters with it and learned a bit, I think. Mine is pretty much done at 500 yards. It shoots great but is susceptible to lots of wind drift with a 117 gr. ~ 120 Gr. bullet. A 6.5 Creedmoor will out perform it easily with a 140 VLD.

I'm nostalgic about the 25-06, but there's lots of new stuff that can out perform it. I currently shoot both, but when my 25-06 wears out, I'm re-barreling it to a 6.5 something.

 

[WildRose]

Are all of your shots beyond 300 yards?

If you saw a perfectly symmetrical 30" 4x4 muley buck at a 100 yards, would you back up 900 yards before you fired shot at him?

Extremism is logical fallacy. Writing of killing moose with a .22 is extremism. Let's stick with reasonable.

It's not an all or none world.

Most of my deer hunting starts at about 300yds.

The .22lr is the rifle that fed poor families for most of a hundred years and was also the most popular among poachers because of the mild rapport and yes when you are close enough it can be used to kill any of the cloven hooved game in North America with the exception of buffalo.

The emergency survival rifles our air crews were .22lr/.410 or .22Hornet/ and .410 or 20g depending largely on what corner of the world they were sent to for flying combat missions.

If you have a disdain for long range hunting, you're in the wrong place.

 

[WildRose]

It just dawned on me but for most of my life my 2 gun battery was a 22 Hornet and 7mm Rem or .220 Swift and 7mm STW. That covered everything from rabbits and Prairie dogs to deer and big hogs.

The .22's stayed in the truck year round and during fall hunting season there would be one .22 and a 7mm.