The Facebook crazies

[Wanfalt1]

Can't read the chart. What does it say?

I read the chart that you supplied and then went to Hornady's website. They do say that it shouldn't be shot in anything less than a 12 twist. I don't have access to sea level but the chart you submitted is very conservative. I lived at 500 feet above sea level a long time and shot a lot of heavier longer bullets out of a 14 twist. So I am going to go with experience and suggest that you would be fine with a 12 twist or faster. I would however like to take back the 14 twist at sea level. My bad. Thanks for showing me that chart.

 

[Swamplord]

the stupidest argument the creediots have is "low recoil" .... like really, fer realz, seriously ? just how limp wristed are these ga... err guys ...... ?

 

[Barrelnut]

Seeing how a lot of them grew up on video games, I'd say pretty limp. LOL.

Saw a guy awhile back shooting a wood stocked Remmy in 300 RUM with no brake. He shot several 1/2 MOA groups at 300 yards. He was in his 70's. I was impressed.

 

[Gregg C]

I ain't got a dog in this hunt; I haven't shot a CM, don't own one, and don't really care one way or another about them. But **** it's funny to hear all the bashing and honking going on about it, from both sides of the fence! It really is entertaining! That cartoon of that guy puking on his shoes about killed me! I do have a buddy who got himself one, and he's happy with it.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

the stupidest argument the creediots have is "low recoil" .... like really, fer realz, seriously ? just how limp wristed are these ga... err guys ...... ?

Lol! I like low recoil, but I'm also not afraid to get behind something that will rattle your teeth around

 

[trueblue]

My buddy did this EXACT thing. He's a good guy, but he's got this weird superiority complex. He always shot high end shotguns, but his rifles were typical SE deer guns like a marlin 336, Remington 870 slug gun, Remington 783. So when he saw my custom Rifles and a mutual friends RWS .300 win mag and his Gradous 6.5 Creedmore, he literally wrote a blank check and got an $8,500 6.5 creedmore from Gradous. I guarantee you that rifle will never exceed 100 rounds down the barrel and it will never shoot past 100 yards.

That is a crying shame!!

 

[4xforfun]

Good luck with that.
View attachment 84316

Tell me, how many 55 grain NBT's and 53 grain V-MAX's have been shot sucsesfully out of 14 twist BBLS? Pretty much EVERY factory Rem comes, or at least used to come , with a 14 twist.

Answer......MILLIONS!! I have shot many, many thousands. I finally shot a 22-250 AI that WOULD NOT shoot 53's/55's with a 14 about 2 years ago.

Now, if I PLANNED a new build and PLANNED on shooting the 53/55 class bullets, I would NOT use a 14 twist. That is just common sense. But , I was told MANY times that I could not shoot the 200 Hybrid out of a 12 twist 30 cal tube also, but, SOMEHOW ...won match after match with it in IBS 1000 BR. Same with the 230 in an 11 twist.

II am thinking that the people who tell me that it can't work because of some chart they saw on the INTERNET....well....you gety my point.

My point is, it can't hurt to shut the computer off and try.

my .02,
Tod

 

[Gord0]

Tell me, how many 55 grain NBT's and 53 grain V-MAX's have been shot sucsesfully out of 14 twist BBLS? Pretty much EVERY factory Rem comes, or at least used to come , with a 14 twist.

Answer......MILLIONS!! I have shot many, many thousands. I finally shot a 22-250 AI that WOULD NOT shoot 53's/55's with a 14 about 2 years ago.

Now, if I PLANNED a new build and PLANNED on shooting the 53/55 class bullets, I would NOT use a 14 twist. That is just common sense. But , I was told MANY times that I could not shoot the 200 Hybrid out of a 12 twist 30 cal tube also, but, SOMEHOW ...won match after match with it in IBS 1000 BR. Same with the 230 in an 11 twist.

II am thinking that the people who tell me that it can't work because of some chart they saw on the INTERNET....well....you gety my point.

My point is, it can't hurt to shut the computer off and try.

my .02,
Tod

There is a big difference between the 53gr vmax and a standard 55gr. Far left is a 60gr vmax middle is a 53gr and right is a standard 55gr sp. Unless you're at a decent elevation I say again. Good luck.

 

[4xforfun]

There is a big difference between the 53gr vmax and a standard 55gr. Far left is a 60gr vmax middle is a 53gr and right is a standard 55gr sp. Unless you're at a decent elevation I say again. Good luck.

View attachment 85231

Did you not read my post....
"how many 55 grain NBT's and 53 grain V-MAX's have been shot sucsesfully out of 14 twist BBLS?"

No where did I say anything about "standard 55g".

Reading is one of the "R's" in the 3 "Rs"!!

Just sayin,
Tod

 

[Deleted member 48126]

Did you not read my post....
"how many 55 grain NBT's and 53 grain V-MAX's have been shot sucsesfully out of 14 twist BBLS?"

No where did I say anything about "standard 55g".

Reading is one of the "R's" in the 3 "Rs"!!

Just sayin,
Tod

Gents I've been saying this a lot lately...but we are all on the same team. No biggie.

 

[Wanfalt1]

There is a big difference between the 53gr vmax and a standard 55gr. Far left is a 60gr vmax middle is a 53gr and right is a standard 55gr sp. Unless you're at a decent elevation I say again. Good luck.

View attachment 85231

I think this needs to be resolved. I live at 7200feet above sea level. So I can't prove this. I shot a 22-250 IMP for a long time. It has a 14 twist. I shot it at 500 feet above sea level. I shot the Sierra 55 gr spritzer boat tails. Number 1365 Extremely accurate. I had a .223 12 twist shot the same bullet for years. I think you need to try out your theory, the 53 grain vmax, amax will shoot great in a 12 and probably a 14 twist. We live in a different mindset these days. I fully agree a faster twist with a heavy bullet works great. But saying a 53 grain .224 diameter bullet won't stabilize in a 12 twist is hard to believe. I have never shot it at sea level. So prove that this is wrong. I don't believe your conservative chart. Please don't take this as an insult. I am humbled everyday. I could be here. 500 feet shouldn't make a difference. Please accept this challenge as we all need an education!

 

[Gord0]

I think this needs to be resolved. I live at 7200feet above sea level. So I can't prove this. I shot a 22-250 IMP for a long time. It has a 14 twist. I shot it at 500 feet above sea level. I shot the Sierra 55 gr spritzer boat tails. Number 1365 Extremely accurate. I had a .223 12 twist shot the same bullet for years. I think you need to try out your theory, the 53 grain vmax, amax will shoot great in a 12 and probably a 14 twist. We live in a different mindset these days. I fully agree a faster twist with a heavy bullet works great. But saying a 53 grain .224 diameter bullet won't stabilize in a 12 twist is hard to believe. I have never shot it at sea level. So prove that this is wrong. I don't believe your conservative chart. Please don't take this as an insult. I am humbled everyday. I could be here. 500 feet shouldn't make a difference. Please accept this challenge as we all need an education!

I don't have a 14 twist or I gladly would. It's not the bullet weight, but the length that matters. Your 55gr Sierra 1365 has a length of .724" which will be marginally stable at 500'asl out of your 14 twist. You lose some BC but it should fly just fine. You probably wouldn't think of running a 64gr Berger in a 14. It has a length of .815". A 50gr Barnes varmint grenade might sound good, but it has a length of .855". There's complaints everywhere of the Barnes making shotgun patterns. The 52gr amax is a fairly long bullet for it's weight and comes in at .8" The 53gr vmax is a very long bullet for it's weight at .836". A 12 twist gets you right on the edge of marginal stability with the 53. Throw in a little elevation and it'll fly, and even accurately, but with some BC loss.

 

[4xforfun]

I don't have a 14 twist or I gladly would. It's not the bullet weight, but the length that matters. Your 55gr Sierra 1365 has a length of .724" which will be marginally stable at 500'asl out of your 14 twist. You lose some BC but it should fly just fine. You probably wouldn't think of running a 64gr Berger in a 14. It has a length of .815". A 50gr Barnes varmint grenade might sound good, but it has a length of .855". There's complaints everywhere of the Barnes making shotgun patterns. The 52gr amax is a fairly long bullet for it's weight and comes in at .8" The 53gr vmax is a very long bullet for it's weight at .836". A 12 twist gets you right on the edge of marginal stability with the 53. Throw in a little elevation and it'll fly, and even accurately, but with some BC loss.

So, GordO
.... by your own admission, you have never tried a 55 Balistic tip or a 53 VMAX out of a 14 twist, so you have no idea. What you have done is quote some balisitic chart off of the internet. I mean, hell, if you saw it on the internet......

I have shot no less than 6 different 14 twist .224 tubes that shot the plastic tipped 53/55 grain bullets accurately, and only one...the last one I tried, that did not.

I agree...if you are planning on shooting the longer bullet, plan on building a faster twist. BUT, if you walk out of the gun store with a shiny new .224 with a factory 14 twist, at least give the plastic tipped 55 gn class bullets a try. MILLIONS have done it sucsessfully...probably because they have never heard of Litz...they didn't know any better NOT to try! I know Litz is GOD in the shooting world...and to me too, but everything is not gospel when it comes to shooting.

 

[codyadams]

What is also being forgotten here is the difference the plastic tip vs. a BTHP design makes in stability.

The Berger calculator is for BTHP type bullets. If you run the stability calculator on JBM ballistics and factor in the plastic tip length, the stability at sea level is .997 vs .708 that you get from the Berger calculator. This is however, still "unstable", but it is higher than what Berger gives. A bullet can still shoot accurate when it is somewhat unstable, but your BC is compromised to an extent.

I never myself shot a 53 grain v-max in my 14 twist 22-250, but I did however shoot the 55 grain v-max, and at my elevation with a pressure of 23.25 (6600 ft elevation) it's stability is 1.433 according to JBM, 1.112 ac 29.95 (sea level) pressure, and it shot very well, approximately half MOA. 1.433 is very close to the acceptable 1.5, and I did end up using the 40 grain v-max as it did shoot a little better, .2-.3 MOA groups.

Moral of the story, it may not have an acceptable stability factor, but it may still shoot accurate. Now can we be done?