The Berger 300 gr Hybrid Gen 2
- Thread starter Shawn Carlock
- Start date
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so what did you change in the bullet design? were you able to even figure out what the problem was initially?
this seems weird because some of the guys i've talked to have not had any problems while pushing the old ones over 3000, even up to the 3200-3300 range. i'm just curious to why some guys had so many problems, and others had zero problems?
i have about 500 of the old ones left, and have run them up to just over 3000, and have seen no issues, but i still don't feel totally confident just because of all the talk on the boards about the "problems".
should i send in my old ones to swap out with the new ones just to boost my confidence?
this seems weird because some of the guys i've talked to have not had any problems while pushing the old ones over 3000, even up to the 3200-3300 range. i'm just curious to why some guys had so many problems, and others had zero problems?
i have about 500 of the old ones left, and have run them up to just over 3000, and have seen no issues, but i still don't feel totally confident just because of all the talk on the boards about the "problems".
should i send in my old ones to swap out with the new ones just to boost my confidence?
Broz
Well-Known Member
Eric, I sent an email to Teresa about 10 days ago with questions about if you will still be making the Gen 1's, and also trading in the Gen 1's I have for Gen 2's. She has not replied yet. I asked for a reply asap as I am wanting to get going on load work up with the Gen 2's, if I can get them. I would love to have a confident load with Gen 2's for Shawn's shooting school I am attending in July. As you know it takes time to do this and confirm drops to a mile. My only other choice is to go back to my SMK load and that is not my first choice. I realize Teresa is probably busy, but could you at least make sure she got the e-mail?
Thanks for any help here.
Jeff
Shawn Carlock
Sponsor
We did not test out to .040". We started at .000" and moved back until we got an accruate load we didn't make it to .040" or futher. Sorry. I know some guys are having good results at distances even futher than .040", some are running even .080".- .100" with good results. I have found in most of our setups that closer is better, some where between .020"-.000".
Shawn Carlock
Sponsor
It seems that the photo hoster we were using went TU. You can look at the LRKM on our Facebook page for right now.
Eric Stecker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 292
Sp6X6,
We do not make the 250 gr Hybrid yet. We did not make this bullet because of the issues reported with the 300 gr. Now that the 300 gr is working well we are confident that we can move forward with the 250 gr. The factors that effect performance are magnified in longer/heavier bullets so we knew that if the 300 gr works well the 250 gr will have no problems.
Lovdasnow,
We did not change the shape of the bullet but rather the thickness of the jacket we use to make the bullet. The design is exactly the same so trajectory performance will be the same.
We made several attempts to identify what was causing the poor performance at higher velocities. We were unable to recreate these results so we were unable to identify the specific root cause. The fact that shooters are experiencing this result at different velocities means that each rifle plays a part in this results but we don't know how or in what way.
The one factor that has been common in each report of poor performance is that the velocity level at which they perform poorly is clear and consistent. If you have not had any problems then the bullets you are using will work. Those who have experienced problems have found that by reducing their load they will reach a point where the bullets will perform well.
Those who either do not observe this result at all or those who found a load at which the bullets work and are happy at that velocity can be confident that the Gen 1 bullets they have will work without problems.
Having said that, at Berger we are committed to every shooters satisfaction so if you want to exchange your Gen 1 bullets for Gen 2 bullets please contact Teresa Collins at 714-447-5456 or at [email protected]. She will provide you with an RMA number so you can send your bullets to us in exchange for the Gen 2 versions. Understand that bullets receive at this point will be returned after we satisfy all of our backorders. If you sent your bullets back prior to the back orders received your bullets will be shipped first.
Jeff/Broz,
I will get with Teresa today to find out why you have not received a reply. I can tell you that at this time we do not know if we need to make the Gen 1 bullets. We will be testing the Gen 2 bullets for terminal performance. If the Gen 2 bullets are just as lethal as the Gen 1 bullets then we will make only the Gen 2 version since the Gen 1 version will have no added benefit.
I need to be very clear that if you have not had any problems with the Gen 1 bullets you will not have any problems with the Gen 1 bullets. 95% of the shooters using the Gen 1 bullets are having no problems at all. I encourage anyone who is using the Gen 1 bullets successfully to continue to use these bullets as they will not have any problems.
We work to get as close to perfection as possible. This means that if 5% of the shooters are having problems we will work to solve this problem. In many cases this presents the misconception that all the bullets are bad. This is not the case.
One of the things that I know will happen is that when the Gen 1 bullets are collected there will be many shooters who will want these bullets because they do work so well. So don't assume that just because you have Gen 1 bullets that you have bad bullets. They are not bad but rather have a lower velocity limit in some rifles than the Gen 2 bullets. In every other way they are just as good as the Gen 2 bullets and in the terminal performance area may be better (this is not tested yet).
Regards,
Eric
We do not make the 250 gr Hybrid yet. We did not make this bullet because of the issues reported with the 300 gr. Now that the 300 gr is working well we are confident that we can move forward with the 250 gr. The factors that effect performance are magnified in longer/heavier bullets so we knew that if the 300 gr works well the 250 gr will have no problems.
Lovdasnow,
We did not change the shape of the bullet but rather the thickness of the jacket we use to make the bullet. The design is exactly the same so trajectory performance will be the same.
We made several attempts to identify what was causing the poor performance at higher velocities. We were unable to recreate these results so we were unable to identify the specific root cause. The fact that shooters are experiencing this result at different velocities means that each rifle plays a part in this results but we don't know how or in what way.
The one factor that has been common in each report of poor performance is that the velocity level at which they perform poorly is clear and consistent. If you have not had any problems then the bullets you are using will work. Those who have experienced problems have found that by reducing their load they will reach a point where the bullets will perform well.
Those who either do not observe this result at all or those who found a load at which the bullets work and are happy at that velocity can be confident that the Gen 1 bullets they have will work without problems.
Having said that, at Berger we are committed to every shooters satisfaction so if you want to exchange your Gen 1 bullets for Gen 2 bullets please contact Teresa Collins at 714-447-5456 or at [email protected]. She will provide you with an RMA number so you can send your bullets to us in exchange for the Gen 2 versions. Understand that bullets receive at this point will be returned after we satisfy all of our backorders. If you sent your bullets back prior to the back orders received your bullets will be shipped first.
Jeff/Broz,
I will get with Teresa today to find out why you have not received a reply. I can tell you that at this time we do not know if we need to make the Gen 1 bullets. We will be testing the Gen 2 bullets for terminal performance. If the Gen 2 bullets are just as lethal as the Gen 1 bullets then we will make only the Gen 2 version since the Gen 1 version will have no added benefit.
I need to be very clear that if you have not had any problems with the Gen 1 bullets you will not have any problems with the Gen 1 bullets. 95% of the shooters using the Gen 1 bullets are having no problems at all. I encourage anyone who is using the Gen 1 bullets successfully to continue to use these bullets as they will not have any problems.
We work to get as close to perfection as possible. This means that if 5% of the shooters are having problems we will work to solve this problem. In many cases this presents the misconception that all the bullets are bad. This is not the case.
One of the things that I know will happen is that when the Gen 1 bullets are collected there will be many shooters who will want these bullets because they do work so well. So don't assume that just because you have Gen 1 bullets that you have bad bullets. They are not bad but rather have a lower velocity limit in some rifles than the Gen 2 bullets. In every other way they are just as good as the Gen 2 bullets and in the terminal performance area may be better (this is not tested yet).
Regards,
Eric
The gen I bullets work awesome in my 338 Lapua at 2800 fps. They shoot one hole groups at my 225 yard zero, and I've had 3/4 moa accuracy at 2000 yards with them. I simply love these bullets! Thanks for making a clearly superior bullet, Eric. It will be nice to be able to shoot them in a 338 Allen Xpress and hopefully a 338 Allen mag now that the gen II bullets are coming out.
Villreinjeger
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
- Messages
- 48
I've just got my hands on s pack of 300grs Hybrids, but wonder å if it is gen1 or 2?
PN: 33106 Lot#3529
679459331067
I'd be very happy if someone knows and could confirm.
PN: 33106 Lot#3529
679459331067
I'd be very happy if someone knows and could confirm.
trebark
Well-Known Member
Call Berger tomorrow and get a definitive answer.
Villreinjeger
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
- Messages
- 48
Well, I live in Norway, so I'd rather not. Could send them an e-mail though.
trebark
Well-Known Member
Eric Stecker has posted on this thread. He is senior staff at Berger. Hopefully he will jump-in with the info you need. If not, PM him directly.
Villreinjeger
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
- Messages
- 48
Thanks a lot!
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
Unless your ripping them out of a CheyTac based 338 either should work fine for you. I say enjoy/shoot them up and order more.
