sub moa accuracy of plain factory rifles stock

[midwestmoa]

Savage 110 300 win, savage 110 308,savage 110 243, howa 1500 sporter barrel 300 win, howa 1500 heavy barrel 1 10 twist 308, howa 1500 heavy barrel 1 12 twist 308, vangaurd submoa 270 win
Remington 700 3006, and the *** 770 remington 7 mag, model 70 winchester 270win,a sears and roebuck 270 old one then theres my k98 builds but im not including those.

 

[ohiohunter]

ohio - (hope this in not offtopic) I just wish i had found the "magic" of krieger years ago. (read yer quarter minute guns). sure i would have missed out on the excitment of FINDING that one moa load out there you mention. having a couple .25" rifles, i feel i would been just fine without eperiencing that excitement. aggree?

Yes and no, it all builds character.

Some people are happy with the bare minimum and don't care to burden themselves with the cost (time included) of improving on that standard. Bare minimum for me is sub-moa, it may be 1.5moa for others etc. I however do not impose my standards on others though I might suggest striving for better results. It really is to each their own.

Everyone has to start somewhere, and I think there comes a point when you start to enjoy the finer things in life when obtainable. Custom guns are not obtainable by all and some simply do not need customs when they are happy with their factory rifles.

 

[MOOSE39465]

The average person doesn't have the time and knowledge to make a factory bolt gun consistently shoot sub moa, and if they do your lucky to get 20 good shots before it goes to the cleaning bench because the accuracy starts to deteriorates. If you want a consistent rifle then go buy a custom or have the factory rifle re-barreled. I wasted enough time and money on trying to get a factory rifle to do what a custom will do all day long.

 

[roninflag]

Ohio- (appolgy to midwest if off topic) i Hunt/shoot coyotes and always felt i Had to to Have really small groups to make sure it was me if i missed. lot of blood sweat and tears. krieger or hart magic. love it.

 

[GuNsLiNgEr78]

Well lloydsmale I have well over ten years machine shop experience building racing engines and stock . I was referring to a 1/4 mile drag race . And if a guy puts the money in the right places he can have a well over powered car than another guy that's an idiot with his money. the new ss Camaro will paddle a stock new vette all day period,and I have seen it plenty of times . Come on up to the motor city and ill take you for a ride in a 69 nova that makes some real power . 950 ish at the crank on pump gas . just bring your depends cause I don't want the mess on the seat . it will dip into the nines . I simply was using the car thing as a comparison to a guy with a over priced rifle . vettes are great American made cars but the parts are way more for the dumbest stuff if you say vette,and a lot of the vette guys are wieners . from a machinist stand point I don't think some of the custom actions are even close to worth the money . Especially some of the companies selling a mildly worked barreled action on a bedded glass stock . I have priced some at $5500 and its simply a rip of when you can take a savage or Remington and do just as well . Maybe even one of them jap guns too. Maybe Midwest just has to prove it by posting some targets but that probably wouldn't be good enough cause people would just say its a lie .

 

[midwestmoa]

So a krieger barrel or whatever is going to shoot better after more rounds and fouling then factory spec hmm I dont think so ive tested this I clean them every 300 rounds or so this might seem crazy to some but also alot of people do this so im not the only one and this goes for all my non corrosive modern rifle catridges but this is my opinion also.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well lloydsmale I have well over ten years machine shop experience building racing engines and stock . I was referring to a 1/4 mile drag race . And if a guy puts the money in the right places he can have a well over powered car than another guy that's an idiot with his money. the new ss Camaro will paddle a stock new vette all day period,and I have seen it plenty of times . Come on up to the motor city and ill take you for a ride in a 69 nova that makes some real power . 950 ish at the crank on pump gas . just bring your depends cause I don't want the mess on the seat . it will dip into the nines . I simply was using the car thing as a comparison to a guy with a over priced rifle . vettes are great American made cars but the parts are way more for the dumbest stuff if you say vette,and a lot of the vette guys are wieners . from a machinist stand point I don't think some of the custom actions are even close to worth the money . Especially some of the companies selling a mildly worked barreled action on a bedded glass stock . I have priced some at $5500 and its simply a rip of when you can take a savage or Remington and do just as well . Maybe even one of them jap guns too. Maybe Midwest just has to prove it by posting some targets but that probably wouldn't be good enough cause people would just say its a lie .

Thank you! I agree 110%.

 

[ohiohunter]

Ohio- (appolgy to midwest if off topic) i Hunt/shoot coyotes and always felt i Had to to Have really small groups to make sure it was me if i missed. lot of blood sweat and tears. krieger or hart magic. love it.

Absolutely, aim small miss small.

 

[ohiohunter]

So what exactly are we trying to prove in this thread?

1. Factory guns can shoot sub moa?.... Yes they can, we all know this.

2. There are grossly overpriced rifles out there? Yes we know this, but people still buy them so they are still being made and sold.

3. Midwestmoa can take any factory gun rusted or not and shoot 0.5moa with it b/c he found the magic load for that particular gun all while typing in this thread with his phone please excuse the lack of punctuation as that doesn't really matter rite b/c why do people waste 5000 on a gun when this used savage axis only cost 150 complete with a scope that only took one shot to sight in but who really needs a krieger barrel after all when I can shoot 300 bullets into the same hole without ever cleaning the barrel never mind the hydrophillic properties of old powder residue in a humid environment that just adds traction.

So where are we going with this thread other than pure entertainment purposes?

 

[MudRunner2005]

So what exactly are we trying to prove in this thread?

1. Factory guns can shoot sub moa?.... Yes they can, we all know this.

2. There are grossly overpriced rifles out there? Yes we know this, but people still buy them so they are still being made and sold.

3. Midwestmoa can take any factory gun rusted or not and shoot 0.5moa with it b/c he found the magic load for that particular gun all while typing in this thread with his phone please excuse the lack of punctuation as that doesn't really matter rite b/c why do people waste 5000 on a gun when this used savage axis only cost 150 complete with a scope that only took one shot to sight in but who really needs a krieger barrel after all when I can shoot 300 bullets into the same hole without ever cleaning the barrel never mind the hydrophillic properties of old powder residue in a humid environment that just adds traction.

So where are we going with this thread other than pure entertainment purposes?

Yes, but because people keep willingly pay those prices for a name associated with a weapon, that has become "normal" custom pricing. Which is ridiculous. Basic blueprinting of a rifle action is VERY simple these days with the tools available to us now. You can true your own action at home without a mill or lathe... The tools add up to a over a grand, but if you have expensive smiths nearby, just by truing up 3 rifles and the tools have paid for themselves.

Here is a really cool article...

Blueprinting a Remington 700 Action | Rifleshooter.com

 

[ohiohunter]

Yes, but because people keep willingly pay those prices for a name associated with a weapon, that has become "normal" custom pricing. Which is ridiculous. Basic blueprinting of a rifle action is VERY simple these days with the tools available to us now. You can true your own action at home without a mill or lathe... The tools add up to a over a grand, but if you have expensive smiths nearby, just by truing up 3 rifles and the tools have paid for themselves.

Here is a really cool article...

Blueprinting a Remington 700 Action | Rifleshooter.com

I've heard about these easy to true tools a while back. Pricing a trued 700 action plus a ptg bolt, I'd rather drop the extra coin on a stiller and have higher resale value and tighter tolerances.

If every custom cost 5k I would undoubtedly be shooting a factory gun.

 

[extreme]

A WEATHERBY ACCUMARK RC IS APP. $2400.00 ADD A NIGHT FORCE 5-25X56 SCOPE $2500.00 TOTAL ==$4900.00 GIVE OR TAKE A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS.
I OWN OVER ( 40 ) WEATHERBY RIFLES AND IN 50 + YEARS YOU COULD PROBABLY
DOUBLE THAT NUMBER OF WEATHERBY RIFLES I HAVE SOLD. POINT IS I ONLY EVER HAD 1 THAT WOULD NOT SHOOT 1/2 TO 5/8 INCH AT 100 YARDS. THESE ARE HUNTING RIFLES AND I HAVE KILLED DEER AND ELK OUT TO 1O00 YARDS WITH A LOT OF THEM. I BELIEVE WE CALL THESE SEMI CUSTOM WITH PROPER BARREL BREAK IN. I HAVE SAVAGE RIFLES THAT DO THE SAME.
I ALSO HAVE ( 12 ) TOTAL CUSTOM RIFLES AND NOT ONE IS UNDER $ 12,000
DOLLARS AND EACH WILL SHOT LITTLE BUG HOLES NO MATTER WHAT THE DISTANCE IF I DO MY JOB. BOTTOM LINE,, THERE ARE RIFLE MANUFACTURES TODAY SUCH AS WEATHERBY THAT PRODUCE WHAT ARE BEING CALLED SUB MOA RIFLES.HOWEVER IF YOU WANT TOP PERFORMANCE AND REAL 1/4 MIN /SUB MOA YOU MUST SPEND THE MONEY. lightbulb

 

[GuNsLiNgEr78]

Nice find mudrunner . that just goes to show how very little is going on when it comes to gun smith work when working with the right tools . That's not a good hobby for everyone to take up maybe, but Im purdy sure a monkey could nearly be trained to do it with a good mentor . or you just junk a few actions and learn the hard way lol. its just steel anyways

 

[MudRunner2005]

A WEATHERBY ACCUMARK RC IS APP. $2400.00 ADD A NIGHT FORCE 5-25X56 SCOPE $2500.00 TOTAL ==$4900.00 GIVE OR TAKE A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS.
I OWN OVER ( 40 ) WEATHERBY RIFLES AND IN 50 + YEARS YOU COULD PROBABLY
DOUBLE THAT NUMBER OF WEATHERBY RIFLES I HAVE SOLD. POINT IS I ONLY EVER HAD 1 THAT WOULD NOT SHOOT 1/2 TO 5/8 INCH AT 100 YARDS. THESE ARE HUNTING RIFLES AND I HAVE KILLED DEER AND ELK OUT TO 1O00 YARDS WITH A LOT OF THEM. I BELIEVE WE CALL THESE SEMI CUSTOM WITH PROPER BARREL BREAK IN. I HAVE SAVAGE RIFLES THAT DO THE SAME.
I ALSO HAVE ( 12 ) TOTAL CUSTOM RIFLES AND NOT ONE IS UNDER $ 12,000
DOLLARS AND EACH WILL SHOT LITTLE BUG HOLES NO MATTER WHAT THE DISTANCE IF I DO MY JOB. BOTTOM LINE,, THERE ARE RIFLE MANUFACTURES TODAY SUCH AS WEATHERBY THAT PRODUCE WHAT ARE BEING CALLED SUB MOA RIFLES.HOWEVER IF YOU WANT TOP PERFORMANCE AND REAL 1/4 MIN /SUB MOA YOU MUST SPEND THE MONEY. lightbulb

Funny, I had a Weatherby Accumark that wouldn't shoot a 2" group with factory ammo at 100 yards. With handloads it only got down to 1.5"... After over 200 rounds of handloaded ladder testing attempts with different powders, bullets, seating depths, etc... I had sunk more than enough money into a bottomless pit. It got sold...

I'm sure you'll call BS with your Weatherby loyalty, and your $124,000's worth of custom rifles, but I gain absolutely nothing from lying about my personal experiences.