Speed kills

[Orion2010]

I ve been at this a long time , custom calibers etc.
Everybody got an opinion and it makes it fun to discuss.
Heres my 2 cents
1. No one caliber is better than the other bullet diameter and case capacity = Velocity Its not hard it simple physics . The short fat cases are a little more accurate but accuracy is a big word 100 yds no wind or 900-1000 not sure angle wind etc need speed period.
2. Bullet selection is more about the velocity at the target point . All the premium bullets are good but a 300 BLKout at 200 yds cant open up only a lite hole . Barnes works well at the unknown as Berger both have a large window to open.
3. BC of a bullet not as bog as factor as people make it . More velocity fixes this as well as wind etc. Speed kills .
4. Magic happens over 3000 fps and after 3800 not as much.
5. What's intended use? Paper , 308 win is awesome , not a hunting gun 338-378 weatherby or 378 weatherby kills reload and match bullet to speed and animal.
6. Case and powder , reloading manuals are starting points not bibles. Your rifle is one of a kind . bbl length , chamber , crimp . Max out the case capacity with the powder . Meaning match the burn rate to get to that magical area for bullet weight and your gun 's unique character. This will give you the max vel. and accuracy 90% of the time. Same as velocity its simple physics , stop reading marketing crap.
7. Range time dail in data , chrony time and go to the open areas and shoot unknown distances 400yd plus and e what you can do without sand bags and an umbrella . Real world shooting .

 

[pyroducksx3]

I think you are lost, I think you meant to go to 24hr campfire.

 

[4xforfun]

I ve been at this a long time , custom calibers etc.
Everybody got an opinion and it makes it fun to discuss.
Heres my 2 cents
1. No one caliber is better than the other bullet diameter and case capacity = Velocity Its not hard it simple physics . The short fat cases are a little more accurate but accuracy is a big word 100 yds no wind or 900-1000 not sure angle wind etc need speed period.
2. Bullet selection is more about the velocity at the target point . All the premium bullets are good but a 300 BLKout at 200 yds cant open up only a lite hole . Barnes works well at the unknown as Berger both have a large window to open.
3. BC of a bullet not as bog as factor as people make it . More velocity fixes this as well as wind etc. Speed kills .
4. Magic happens over 3000 fps and after 3800 not as much.
5. What's intended use? Paper , 308 win is awesome , not a hunting gun 338-378 weatherby or 378 weatherby kills reload and match bullet to speed and animal.
6. Case and powder , reloading manuals are starting points not bibles. Your rifle is one of a kind . bbl length , chamber , crimp . Max out the case capacity with the powder . Meaning match the burn rate to get to that magical area for bullet weight and your gun 's unique character. This will give you the max vel. and accuracy 90% of the time. Same as velocity its simple physics , stop reading marketing crap.
7. Range time dail in data , chrony time and go to the open areas and shoot unknown distances 400yd plus and e what you can do without sand bags and an umbrella . Real world shooting .

You stated.....

7. Range time dail in data , chrony time and go to the open areas and shoot unknown distances 400yd plus and e what you can do without sand bags and an umbrella . Real world shooting .[/QUOTE]
If you are shooting 400 plus yards, you shure-n-L better know the range!!!! If you don't, you shur-N-L are on the wrong fourm!!!

 

[lynxpilot]

I'm confused.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I see this thread as more of a debate thread than anything constructive, but I'll toss my $.02 in anyway

24 hour campfire??? where in left field did that one come from???

1. No,,,, don't you know the 7rem is magical???

2. Yes... don't shove a barnes in a slow mover like a 308 and try to stuff a critter at a half mile; dame with a soft bullet in a fast stepper

3. B.C. sells... that's why it is a big deal... I've made some of my longest kills with a lowly .400 bc sierra in 7mm... of course when you step over the 800-1000 area, bc is king, but the way I hunt having a pointy tip is usually enough

4. yes... to a point... you stuff a 50 cal. muzzle loader in 'em, they drop as fast as getting hit by a 270 or 30-06 though. you slow it down, you need to bring up the bullet diameter also...

5. depends on what you want to do with it... a 308 is a fine cartridge for game if you respect it's limitations... so is a big 30 like the 30-378

6. you will likely get your best accuracy with the lowest muzzle pressure load that fills the case well enough to not have much variance with powder positioning in the case... something over 80% full but not compressed...

as to the reloading manual not being a bible; I see more dangerous things by people not respecting loading manuals than anything else, bar none... people also need to respect the speed limits associated with their cartridges; if you are 200 fps over average book numbers with a combination, you are likely running dangerous pressure and need to back down

7. I shoot unknown distances all the time; we try to get out and rock hunt at least a few times a year. I'm a spot and stalk hunter for the most part, and often do not have the time to range what I shoot... if you get good though, you will find that the critters themselves are optical rangefinders, as long as you use the same magnification on all of your scopes for hunting... I prefer 16x myself...

There is a threshold where you need to range before you shoot though, and that is different for nearly everyone... Someone who is extremely dependent on his rangefinder may have to start ranging well before the 1/4 mile mark, but someone like me who grew up with big cartridges and Kentucky windage may scoff at pulling up a rangefinder until game is nearing the 1/2 mile out mark...

 

[pyroducksx3]

24hr campfire was a reference to a more appropriate audience, a sarcastic remark. He came in here preaching that he knows best. While some of what he said isn't entirely untrue for more moderate distance shooters it simply doesn't apply to longrange hunting/shooting. I would say this guy hunts regularly around 500 yards which is long for a very high percentage of hunters. But again this is longrange hunting. To say that speed makes up for all and shooting at animals at unknown ranges is the real world, is just not how it's done at distance. I'm not saying a person can't get it done using these practices but if somebody was to longrange hunt like described by the op then they are doing it wrong.

 

[SidecarFlip]

...Besides, speed kills your barrel.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

...Besides, speed kills your barrel.

Brother, I know that one!!!
I've just re-built one that had serious issues, and now I've got a barrel on the gimp that will need replacement soon on another fire breather.

I wouldn't have it any other way though. I keep my rifles set up so they are ten bodies drop to 1,000 yards. Any further out than that, and someone else can have the critter.
I shoot from any shooting position where I can get a bunch of my body on Mother Earth. I don't play with many gadgets (no smart phone or anemometer) at present and I do not use a rest, so I do not feel that elr is sporting for me. elr is going to have to wait a bit for the funds to do a proper rifle up and get a bit more gear.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Brother, I know that one!!!
I've just re-built one that had serious issues, and now I've got a barrel on the gimp that will need replacement soon on another fire breather.

I wouldn't have it any other way though. I keep my rifles set up so they are ten bodies drop to 1,000 yards. Any further out than that, and someone else can have the critter.
I shoot from any shooting position where I can get a bunch of my body on Mother Earth. I don't play with many gadgets (no smart phone or anemometer) at present and I do not use a rest, so I do not feel that elr is sporting for me. elr is going to have to wait a bit for the funds to do a proper rifle up and get a bit more gear.

I don't need no stink'in ELR. I'll keep shooting my venerable non barrel eating 308's.

If it's over 400 yards, someone else can have it. I'm too old to trudge that far anyway.

Finally got my Pierce gun (after a year)..... Manners built me a custom bedded prototype CF stock and the owner custom bedded it for me. I think were feeling guilty 'cause they wacked 50% off it.

Under 7.5 loaded with a koohona Viper PST on Talley rings. I think I could get it to 7 with a 1" tube instead of a 30mm. That will be post Montana.....

165 Bergs (it's reamed with a Bisley reamer just for the 165's) with Varget or Rel 17 in Lapua brass sized by Whidden custom machined dies, primerd with Federal 210 M's. The lighter they are the harder they kick. I had them mount a Bartlien No. 2 contour tube in keep with light.... 3 ignitions and she's a hot potato.

Working up an accuracy load at 250 clicks but I had to take an hiatus for farming.

 

[308175]

SMH...

308 not a hunting round. Wow. Just wow. Sometimes there is nothing else to say to something so inaccurate and so stupid except wow.

 

[Orion2010]

Brother, I know that one!!!
I've just re-built one that had serious issues, and now I've got a barrel on the gimp that will need replacement soon on another fire breather.

I wouldn't have it any other way though. I keep my rifles set up so they are ten bodies drop to 1,000 yards. Any further out than that, and someone else can have the critter.
I shoot from any shooting position where I can get a bunch of my body on Mother Earth. I don't play with many gadgets (no smart phone or anemometer) at present and I do not use a rest, so I do not feel that elr is sporting for me. elr is going to have to wait a bit for the funds to do a proper rifle up and get a bit more gear.

Awesome real shooting . Carlos H. Did it with no electronics and bad rifles. The modern BORS etc is not real shooting .
Even flat shooting is dropping after 600 yds so much it's hard to hit and then you have to have the energy left to kill as well.

 

[Barrelnut]

If it's over 400 yards, someone else can have it. I'm too old to trudge that far anyway.

I hear ya. That's starting to be one of the more limiting factors in my long range capabilities as well!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Not to demean guys like Len or other LR shooters but, we all know that those guys most likely shoot and (hopefully humanely kill) their animal but someone else retrieves it, processes it and thats how it works in the real world.

When I go hunting now, I make sure the arrangement (with the outfitter) is... They handle the ancillary duties, I do the shooting. I pay for that and I can afford that.

The exception to that is my property and whitetail hunting and there I handle the animal.

I'm still at 400 yards though......

 

[pyroducksx3]

I shoot it, I retrieve it (often by myself) and process it myself. If 400 yards is to far to retrieve an animal I can't imagine you guys get much actual hunting in....