Should I Anneal before fireforming?

[Timnterra]

I'm putting together a 280ai and a 30 Gibbs and I ended up with 200 new Norma 280 Remington brass to use for each of these. It seems like quite a bit of case working on the Gibbs case before I actually get to load and shoot a round. I'm going to be C.O.W. fireforming to not waste bullets. Should I anneal this new brass before I do the fireform? I think the expanding to 30, then to 338, then sizing back down to 30 will harden the brass some and perhaps it would be good to anneal it before fireforming to avoid the case stretching in the lower regions? What do you all think?

 

[GLTaylor]

That's a lot of case movement - 30 to 338 and back to 30. Try a couple using only sizing to 30. Use about 20 grs of Bullseye with No COW, put some rolled up tissue in the case mouth, and fire it. You may have to go up some in Bullseye.
I formed 338 Sherman like this and it worked fine coming from 270 in one step. You'll probably have to remove your ejector so the bolt can hold the case still/snug. (Hold the barrel at an upward angle when firing)
You're still gonna have to use bullets for final forming.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I anneal before fire forming all of my improved cases and I use COW method.
My 338-416 Rigby Improved moves the shoulder forward by more than .100" and is similar to a Gibbs, just on a larger scale.
I neck up/down in steps to try and eliminate thinning/thickening of the necks. The more steps, the less thickening occurs, and vice versa.

Cheers.

 

[Timnterra]

That's a lot of case movement - 30 to 338 and back to 30. Try a couple using only sizing to 30. Use about 20 grs of Bullseye with No COW, put some rolled up tissue in the case mouth, and fire it. You may have to go up some in Bullseye.
I formed 338 Sherman like this and it worked fine coming from 270 in one step. You'll probably have to remove your ejector so the bolt can hold the case still/snug. (Hold the barrel at an upward angle when firing)
You're still gonna have to use bullets for final forming.

You are more brave than me. I want to have something to close bolt with some tension against the case . I was fireforming 7-300 wsm into 7wsm like that with cream of wheat and I had a case head separation.

 

[can1010]

I always anneal when forming 30 gibbs style cases with that much movement. I also use a false shoulder when forming any improved case then you can use a bullet or cow method

 

[can1010]

You are more brave than me. I want to have something to close bolt with some tension against the case . I was fireforming 7-300 wsm into 7wsm like that with cream of wheat and I had a case head separation.

annealing and a false shoulder would have solved that problem

 

[Timnterra]

I anneal before fire forming all of my improved cases and I use COW method.
My 338-416 Rigby Improved moves the shoulder forward by more than .100" and is similar to a Gibbs, just on a larger scale.
I neck up/down in steps to try and eliminate thinning/thickening of the necks. The more steps, the less thickening occurs, and vice versa.

Cheers.

It didn't seem like it would hurt anything to anneal before fireforming. I just got an AMP annealer and I'm annealing everything now

 

[Timnterra]

annealing and a false shoulder would have solved that problem

Live an learn, I tend to learn things the hard way. After that I won't be fireforming anything without a false shoulder or a bullet jammed into the lands ever again.

 

[7stw]

Live an learn, I tend to learn things the hard way. After that I won't be fireforming anything without a false shoulder or a bullet jammed into the lands ever again.

I feel your pain, as i now have a 25.06ai, thst after a little learning curve, my first fireform brass is very close to perfect . At the end of the day, the cow method works best. Using brand new Lapua 30.06, which is annealed already, it sizes nicely, and leaves a little dimple at the shoulder base, that seats it firmly against boltface. Having good brass is key, and theres a lot if junk out there. Take care, and enjoy.

 

[Lodom01]

annealing and a false shoulder would have solved that problem

Would you please explain the false shoulder .
Thanks

 

[Timnterra]

Here is a picture of the steps to create the 30 Gibbs. The false shoulder is created by expanding the neck beyond the 30 caliber needed for the bullet to 338 caliber then only sizing part of the neck back down to 30 caliber creating a "false shoulder" to contact the neck shoulder junction in the chamber. You can see the false shoulder in the third case from the left prior to fireforming.

 

[Lodom01]

Here is a picture of the steps to create the 30 Gibbs. The false shoulder is created by expanding the neck beyond the 30 caliber needed for the bullet to 338 caliber then only sizing part of the neck back down to 30 caliber creating a "false shoulder" to contact the neck shoulder junction in the chamber. You can see the false shoulder in the third case from the left prior to fireforming.

Thanks for the explanation

 

[FEENIX]

I did not anneal mine ...

This is with .35 Whelen, from L-R: .35 Whelen virgin brass, after .30 Gibbs resizing, after COW, and after standard load.

With the .280 from Peterson, it was already annealed. The process is the same as above, except I have to open the mouth to .30 and then .33 before establishing the false shoulder.

 

[ButterBean]

Here is a picture of the steps to create the 30 Gibbs. The false shoulder is created by expanding the neck beyond the 30 caliber needed for the bullet to 338 caliber then only sizing part of the neck back down to 30 caliber creating a "false shoulder" to contact the neck shoulder junction in the chamber. You can see the false shoulder in the third case from the left prior to fireforming.

That's what I was going to suggest as well , Neck up and then back down to a false shoulder then COW