Short barrel 1000 yard elk cartridge

[seidersjoden]

For those of you that disagree with long range hunting, please, go join a different site. What the hell did u expect to see on a forum called long range hunting,com.

Agreed, I've been on this forum for 12 years now and I have shot multiple animals over 1000 yards one over 1100 yards; any situation can be ethical or unethical depending on the conditions but we are on a Long Range Forum and half the people that are trolling this forum with negativity probably haven't shot an animal at long-range.

We are getting off the topic, the original topic was a short-barreled long-range hammer which is a pretty cool and neat topic to have, for those that are trolling get off unless you have something useful to say, let's get back to it gentleman.

 

[Warbird2006]

I like guns and need another one like I need a hole in the head but I have this extra XLR element magnesium chassis and I'm thinking about building a short barreled gun.

I know this has been discussed but I'll ask anyway.

I understand that short barrels castrate big cartridges and I don't care. I don't care about muzzle flash or unburned powder or efficiency etc.

if you think an 18" 338 Lapua is completely ridiculous and should never be done theplease don't respond to this thread (I felt this way a year ago)

now to the question: I want to build a strong magnum long action gun with a short 18"...or maybe 20" barrel. WHAT IS THE BEST CARTRIDGE FOR KILLING ELK to 1000 yards.

elk are tough critters and I don't subscribe to the 7mmRM being sufficient to kill elk with at 1000 with any barrel length (and yes I know it's been done effectively thousands of times)...but I'm looking for something that hits harder than that.

my initial thought is to just do a 338 Lapua (I'm already setup to load that one)...then I started thinking well in that case the 338 Norma is probably a better choice...then my brain went to the 300 Norma with 230 or 245's....

is a 300 Norma not actually faster than a 300 WM if you cut the barrel down that much????

I know we are sacrificing some velocity with a short barrel which is why I went to heavier bullets automatically...but maybe I'm wrong there

also this is not going to be an ELR gun...it's only for 1000 and less so I don't care if we take an entry level ELR cartridge and make it not good enough for ELR.

28 Nosler-375 CT...go

I like rifles with a short barrel, but it is an oxymoron. If you like to run with a nice, light rifle with short barrels, spend some time to learn how to call the elk. You gen get him comfortably with a short-barreled rifle at 600 yeards.

 

[codyadams]

I like rifles with a short barrel, but it is an oxymoron. If you like to run with a nice, light rifle with short barrels, spend some time to learn how to call the elk. You gen get him comfortably with a short-barreled rifle at 600 yeards.

Sometimes that simply isn't possible, one of my honey holes is across a canyon, the elk hang out in timber on a very steep hillside, shots are taken in between trees or in some of the smaller openings. Closest shots available are around 600+ yards. If you go to the hillside they are on, you will have a very hard time getting in on them, this year we watched a group of 4 hunters walk through the center of a herd of nearly 50 elk without any knowledge they were there. This year, our three elk were 883, 987, and 1002.

Just keep in mind not everyone's needs will be the same as yours. The o.p. asked about a 1000 yards short barreled elk rifle, not about why he should just do something different.

 

[Send it 284]

I like rifles with a short barrel, but it is an oxymoron. If you like to run with a nice, light rifle with short barrels, spend some time to learn how to call the elk. You gen get him comfortably with a short-barreled rifle at 600 yeards.

Holy crap!
Is that a flame thrower

 

[tim_w]

If you are going to want to be using those long mono bullets or the longer cup core in a mag feed, even using a cip mag and seat them at ideal position, I think something off the Norma Mag case is the best choice. I also would not count on the one powder that gives the max vel such as VV570 as you may not be able to get it. Same with counting on a fixed elevation like 8k ft etc to boost perf. Life may take you to hunting ground thats half that elevation. Best to plan for the worst case so you have some built in margins.

From the guys I have seen that shoot the most elk at 1k, one thing they all seem to agree on is larger caliber works better. 30 cal over 7mm and 338 over 30. Not only on holding poa poi but authority in putting down the elk.

Sure you can always go bigger and bigger and use more and more grains of powder per fps achieved and the length limits but at some point it becomes too inefficient, otherwise throw a necked down 338-50 bmg in a 18" or one of the elr custom cases.

I think a 20" 338 NM Imp would get you everything you need with a safety margin both perf and much more generous COAL mag limits for those long monos.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I like guns and need another one like I need a hole in the head but I have this extra XLR element magnesium chassis and I'm thinking about building a short barreled gun.

I know this has been discussed but I'll ask anyway.

I understand that short barrels castrate big cartridges and I don't care. I don't care about muzzle flash or unburned powder or efficiency etc.

if you think an 18" 338 Lapua is completely ridiculous and should never be done theplease don't respond to this thread (I felt this way a year ago)

now to the question: I want to build a strong magnum long action gun with a short 18"...or maybe 20" barrel. WHAT IS THE BEST CARTRIDGE FOR KILLING ELK to 1000 yards.

elk are tough critters and I don't subscribe to the 7mmRM being sufficient to kill elk with at 1000 with any barrel length (and yes I know it's been done effectively thousands of times)...but I'm looking for something that hits harder than that.

my initial thought is to just do a 338 Lapua (I'm already setup to load that one)...then I started thinking well in that case the 338 Norma is probably a better choice...then my brain went to the 300 Norma with 230 or 245's....

is a 300 Norma not actually faster than a 300 WM if you cut the barrel down that much????

I know we are sacrificing some velocity with a short barrel which is why I went to heavier bullets automatically...but maybe I'm wrong there

also this is not going to be an ELR gun...it's only for 1000 and less so I don't care if we take an entry level ELR cartridge and make it not good enough for ELR.

28 Nosler-375 CT...go

300 PRC, 300NM both seem very capable with the NM being the champion performance wise. The 300 NM Imp would be a beast in a 20" barrel. Also would require a lapua boltface action. Shortly I'll be doing a 30 Sherman Mag. Simply a 300 PRC Improved. That would be identical maybe even a bit faster than a standard 300NM but capable of using a standard LA bolt. It would be my choice on a 20" package.

 

[codyadams]

300 PRC, 300NM both seem very capable with the NM being the champion performance wise. The 300 NM Imp would be a beast in a 20" barrel. Also would require a lapua boltface action. Shortly I'll be doing a 30 Sherman Mag. Simply a 300 PRC Improved. That would be identical maybe even a bit faster than a standard 300NM but capable of using a standard LA bolt. It would be my choice on a 20" package.

The only issue that might arise is OAL issues, with the use of the really long monos, it might be necessary to get a 4" mag box with the .338 sm. In my .338 Norma using the 270 SBD, I was right about 3.840" at the lands, so about maxed out, and the seating was almost optimized, could have been seated a little farther out for perfect seating. The 250 SBD II may be a little better, I'm not sure of the difference in nose profile between the two, but if it is similar to the 270 sbd, it will be about perfect for seating in a standard .338 NM or improved case, and will likely have a slightly shorter OAL, making it very appropriate. However in slightly longer cases like the PRC, Nosler, or especially the rum's, running as a repeater might get challenging.

As stated though, that would arise only in the longest of monos in the 250 weight range.

 

[VLD Pilot]

The only issue that might arise is OAL issues, with the use of the really long monos, it might be necessary to get a 4" mag box with the .338 sm. In my .338 Norma using the 270 SBD, I was right about 3.840" at the lands, so about maxed out, and the seating was almost optimized, could have been seated a little farther out for perfect seating. The 250 SBD II may be a little better, I'm not sure of the difference in nose profile between the two, but if it is similar to the 270 sbd, it will be about perfect for seating in a standard .338 NM or improved case, and will likely have a slightly shorter OAL, making it very appropriate. However in slightly longer cases like the PRC, Nosler, or especially the rum's, running as a repeater might get challenging.

As stated though, that would arise only in the longest of monos in the 250 weight range.

Since he never mentioned monolithic bullets, I didn't consider them as an option. No ELR gun and 230 to 245 grain bullets seemed pretty possible to make work for elk.

 

[naja302]

How do you like to seat those bulldozers? Do they tend to like short jumps?

 

[naja302]

I'm a big fan of monos

 

[codyadams]

Since he never mentioned monolithic bullets, I didn't consider them as an option. No ELR gun and 230 to 245 grain bullets seemed pretty possible to make work for elk.

Ya they do, but there are some impressive monos too, and since he is running a short barrel it makes sense to go lighter to try to make up some speed, and with the eight bullet your not sacrificing any bc. For 30 cal, badlands has a 205 grain with a better bc than the 230, and not far behind the 245, G7 of .402 and G1 of .785. PVA also has a 210 mono with a .360 G7 and .750 G1, about the same as the 230. So there is quite a bit to gain from some of them even trajectory wise. I still run bergers in some guns don't get me wrong, but in some cases the lead core bullets are getting spanked bc wise from monos.

How do you like to seat those bulldozers? Do they tend to like short jumps?

Didn't seem to care much, mine were .060" off in one gun, .030" off in another, but only ran one seating test and only saw minor gain. Every gun is different though of course, so ymmv.

 

[Send it 284]

For 30 cal, badlands has a 205 grain with a better bc than the 230, and not far behind the 245, G7 of .402 and G1 of .785. PVA also has a 210 mono with a .360 G7 and .750 G1, about the same as the 230. So there is quite a bit to gain from some of them even trajectory wise. I still run bergers in some guns don't get me wrong, but in some cases the lead core bullets are getting spanked bc wise from monos.

I'm going to give the 205's a try here when my 30 nos is done, the bullets certainly look like they should be .785 as advertised but I'm always skeptical..
I Definitely don't trust the PVA numbers, the 170s I tested weren't even remotely close to claimed bc

 

[motrapper]

408 CT??????

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Hunting ethics, don't do things you can't do. The hard part, being honest with yourself about what you can't do. Its just personal responsibility, one of the most American traits.