reloading for accuracy questions

[Steve Sheasly]

Ok, here goes my ignorance -- ignorance is not stupidity. Stupid cant be fixed with knowledge or experiance, but ignorance can.

Broz used Redding precision shell holders to bump the shoulder back .004 to get zero then .006 bump for the perfect fit for his rifle. He explains that it is fired brass and that you do not want to feel any friction on the closing of the bolt. I agree with him that this would give you a pretty good zero.

But if the bolt will close on a fired brass case, it is fire formed to the chamber so why not just reload and shoot the once fired brass as it is? I do not think you can get a more perfect fit than this-------I am guessing that it is because from experience the brass will stick into the chamber right? If this is the case then why not bump it back one thousandth at a time and fire the rounds until they do not stick? Wouldn't this be the best fit possible? I know I would have to knock the brass out a few times but it should not do any damage to the gun.
But if the idea is to get the cartridge and chamber to fit perfectly as possible this should do it.

 

[Steve Sheasly]

Reloading is a very simple and methodical process, the worst thing to do is over think it! Best thing you can do is find someone who loads the 338 Lapua and get advice, a LOT of horrible generic advice can be found on the internet!!

Simple is a matter of opinion I guess. Seems to me a lot of thought goes into the manufacturing of a new round long before the manufacturing process begins. Most of the work has been done for us. But reworking a round to be as perfect as a person can make it requires a lot of thought. Empirical testing is crucial to any process to which clear and reasonable thought can be applied. Reloading is a process. I just like to think outside of the box and these forums really help me to get ideas through the decades of experience of actual re-loaders. I have a friend who manufactures ammunition and sells it across the US with some success. I use him to help me sort the diamonds from the manure.

 

[Canhunter35]

Broz used Redding precision shell holders to bump the shoulder back .004 to get zero then .006 bump for the perfect fit for his rifle. He explains that it is fired brass and that you do not want to feel any friction on the closing of the bolt. I agree with him that this would give you a pretty good zero.

But if the bolt will close on a fired brass case, it is fire formed to the chamber so why not just reload and shoot the once fired brass as it is? I do not think you can get a more perfect fit than this-------I am guessing that it is because from experience the brass will stick into the chamber right? If this is the case then why not bump it back one thousandth at a time and fire the rounds until they do not stick? Wouldn't this be the best fit possible? I know I would have to knock the brass out a few times but it should not do any damage to the gun.
But if the idea is to get the cartridge and chamber to fit perfectly as possible this should do it.

I don't know why if you take a fired brass, use a hornady neck sizer which doesn't bump the shoulder back and load it, The cartridge will load tight. That's why I've stopped using a neck sizer on my 308 and there is no appreciable gain or loss in accuracy. Yet I use the 30 cal neck sizer on my 300wby brass and it works great with the rounds chambering easily. I don't know if it's quality of brass or the belt of the magnum cartridge that's the difference.

From reading posts by bigngreen and barrelnut I'm prettty sure they've forgot more about shooting than I know. Lol, so I would follow their recommendations.

 

[tbrice23]

Steve,
I've done exhaustive testing with neck sized once fired brass vs full length sized brass. By far the best precision was had with full length sized brass.
I'm not an engineer but the results speak clearly. I can only guess that the harmonic vibrations set up by an un-stressed closed action is better than a tight stressed action.

Also, if you are looking to make the straightest ammo possible use a Redding Body die to size the body and a Lee Collet Neck die.
Choose quality brass Lapua or Norma. They have very consistent case wall and neck thickness. If you can only find brass such as Winchester check and cull your brass for neck thickness consistency then neck turn if you feel necessary.
Brass that has low neck thickness variation will have low body thickness variation. This is important because as the brass is sized an fired the case will stretch more on the thin side causing the 'banana ' effect.

 

[bigngreen]

The goal in precision reloading is to have as identical things happening each shot, it's much more consistent and easier to have this with FL sizing, there is literally no Benchrest shooter only neck sizing! You can run brass super tight but every little detail needs managed or you'll see flyers, give the case a little room and things mellow out a LOT, not saying size back to factory but size enough that you can maintain normal function.
Reloading is very easy, obtain some very simple tools so you can measure what your doing then adjust accordingly, if you set up a simple but quality process you eliminate the need to manage a lot of small stuff because your process is simple and accurate. Reloading is not an art, it mechanical by the numbers in a process.
As far as sorting diamonds from manure the key is to not starting with manure!!

 

[desertcj]

The goal in precision reloading is to have as identical things happening each shot, it's much more consistent and easier to have this with FL sizing, there is literally no Benchrest shooter only neck sizing! You can run brass super tight but every little detail needs managed or you'll see flyers, give the case a little room and things mellow out a LOT, not saying size back to factory but size enough that you can maintain normal function.
Reloading is very easy, obtain some very simple tools so you can measure what your doing then adjust accordingly, if you set up a simple but quality process you eliminate the need to manage a lot of small stuff because your process is simple and accurate. Reloading is not an art, it mechanical by the numbers in a process.
As far as sorting diamonds from manure the key is to not starting with manure!!

I believe your comments are a bit misleading. The way you make it sound is that the majority of benchrest shooters are full length sizing every time. I would be VERY surprised if that's the case as I haven't full length sized cases EVER in at least two of my rifles and I'm certainly not a benchrest shooter. I'm sure that some guys do at some point or at least bump the shoulder back but I'm having a hard time understanding why you think that a cartridge flopping around inside of a chamber is more accurate than a fire formed case?

 

[Snyper708]

The way you make it sound is that the majority of benchrest shooters are full length sizing every time.

The majority of winning benchrest shooters do full length resizing.

I'm having a hard time understanding why you think that a cartridge flopping around inside of a chamber is more accurate than a fire formed case?

It's not so much what anyone "thinks".
It's what the better shooters have observed through experimentation.

 

[WildRose]

You are right I tend to overthink. The load is .338 LM. I am trying to understand how a reloaded cartridge will best fit in to the chamber. I would like the round to fit as perfectly in the chamber as possible without getting it stuck. I understand some jump is needed and load development will determine the best jump by trial and error. I want this brass to last as long as possible. It is close to $5 when I pull the trigger on factory

Thank you for the reply. It seems that the neck is crucial to accuracy for the reasons you have outlined and you have confirmed my thoughts. Seems like bullet jump and COAL are fairly easy to determine with the gauges on the market. I have not found much on the neck or the amount of free chamber needed for accuracy. I am just starting to research however and I am sure there are articles out there. Our ranch and home is in Pendleton Oregon.

They will fit best in the chamber by neck sizing and ensuring consistency in neck tension.

Keep your overall length below maximum and only full length resize when you start noticing an increase in bolt lift resistance.

It's easy to get obsessive about the rest.

Find a load your rifle likes, play wit seating depth to fine tune it and have fun shooting. Sub MOA is the goal but you'll burn through a lot of barrels and beat yourself up needlessly trying to achieve benchrest accuracy from a hunting rifle and it just isn't necessary for hunting.

Welcome, and hang on.

 

[Capt RB]

 

[Snyper708]

They will fit best in the chamber by neck sizing and ensuring consistency in neck tension.

Keep your overall length below maximum and only full length resize when you start noticing an increase in bolt lift resistance.

The guy who told me it's better to always full length resize has fired a documented 3.325" 20 round group at 800 yards.
Goggle "Bart Bobbit" of you want to learn more about his credentials.

We asked how he did it, and he said:
I used a .308 Win. with Sierra's 155-gr. Palma bullet with 45.3gr. of IMR4895 and RWS Primers in full-length sized WCC60 match cases. Had a 20X scope on the English Paramount action and shot prone with a bag under my front hand to steady the rifle. It was about 6AM in dead-calm wind conditions.

 

[tbrice23]

Caprb, that Brux video is correct.
Amen!!!!!!!
Every word he said is true.
Everyone who neck sizes only gets what they deserve.

 

[Steve Sheasly]

The goal in precision reloading is to have as identical things happening each shot, it's much more consistent and easier to have this with FL sizing, there is literally no Benchrest shooter only neck sizing! You can run brass super tight but every little detail needs managed or you'll see flyers, give the case a little room and things mellow out a LOT, not saying size back to factory but size enough that you can maintain normal function.
Reloading is very easy, obtain some very simple tools so you can measure what your doing then adjust accordingly, if you set up a simple but quality process you eliminate the need to manage a lot of small stuff because your process is simple and accurate. Reloading is not an art, it mechanical by the numbers in a process.
As far as sorting diamonds from manure the key is to not starting with manure!!

Great reply. No manure here. Would you use RCBS dies for LR?

 

[Steve Sheasly]

The guy who told me it's better to always full length resize has fired a documented 3.325" 20 round group at 800 yards.
Goggle "Bart Bobbit" of you want to learn more about his credentials.

It makes sense to me to full size for consistency if nothing else. Just neck sizing would put different stresses in the top sized brass while leaving the un-sized brass with different stresses. There is science to back this up. Flow stress can be defined as the instantaneous value of stress required to continue plastically deforming the material - to keep the metal flowing. If you stop you create in consistency's in the material in this case the brass. You can actually set up for premature failure with stress risers in the case that will eliminate the reason for only neck sizing in the first place. I have to agree.

 

[Steve Sheasly]

The goal in precision reloading is to have as identical things happening each shot, it's much more consistent and easier to have this with FL sizing, there is literally no Benchrest shooter only neck sizing! You can run brass super tight but every little detail needs managed or you'll see flyers, give the case a little room and things mellow out a LOT, not saying size back to factory but size enough that you can maintain normal function.
Reloading is very easy, obtain some very simple tools so you can measure what your doing then adjust accordingly, if you set up a simple but quality process you eliminate the need to manage a lot of small stuff because your process is simple and accurate. Reloading is not an art, it mechanical by the numbers in a process.
As far as sorting diamonds from manure the key is to not starting with manure!!

I replied to another member in this string: