Ts3
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Sounds good to me. I just bought 1000 gm215m and some 8133.
If the hammers don't work, I'll try Berger 215.
Redding s type die advice
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Sounds good to me. I just bought 1000 gm215m and some 8133.
If the hammers don't work, I'll try Berger 215.
RegionRat
Well-Known Member
Not knowing the exact details of your reamer, allow me to ask...
Have you tried to measure the CBTO with that bullet touching the lands?
If that reamer detail was up above I missed it, sorry... but a starting point can be driven by the magazine length in some cases, and the chamber dimensions in others.
If we assume your mag doesn't preclude seating anywhere you want, then I will suggest about 0.005" off the lands for a hunting rifle. You certainly don't want to jam since that often leads to a stuck bullet when you don't fire and then want to unload. Some rigs will shoot a better group at a deeper seating depth, but as stated earlier, unless you have a better guide going just off the lands is a common start.
Your first tests will establish your entry point for powder charge. Then, if you are in the mood, your next series will be for seating depth.
I saw some earlier advice about doing very little load development in order to save bbl life (and hair, LOL). But I have only seen that approach work well with very standardized weapons. I am often in the position of not being able to copy a good starting point due to bbl lengths, profiles, reamers, etc., and that forced me to use DOE methods to prevent wasting bbl life. YMMV and good luck in any case. In for the range report!
The Hammer bullets won't care what jump you use. Load them to mag length and go shoot.
rfurman gave you good advice take it. I The whole purpose of full length sizing by bumping the shoulders back .002 is consistency. Every loading is the same you are never somewhere between neck sizing and full length sizing.
rfurman gave you good advice take it. I The whole purpose of full length sizing by bumping the shoulders back .002 is consistency. Every loading is the same you are never somewhere between neck sizing and full length sizing.
SealT5
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Bad advice. Never load to Mag length in a custom rifle.
Determine where your lands are and jump the bullet .005"-.010" as mentioned by @RegionRat
Determine where your lands are and jump the bullet .005"-.010" as mentioned by @RegionRat
DUSTY NOGGIN
Well-Known Member
if your brass is new i would not recommend any closer that 20 off
let say that the shoulders on your brass are not are close to touching the shoulder chamber as you think and you size them and end up bumping em 2 more thousands , what if the headspace was .005 and you bump em 2 more totaling .007
what do you think might happen if you only seat .005???
id start safely away at 20 off , until you know your brass is done growing/matching the chamber
if you have consistently measured the shoulder of your fired brass and see there is a maximum measurement on all cases that is never exceeded , then you can assume they have all swollen to match your chamber ... then, a 5 off jump would never jam into lands
let say that the shoulders on your brass are not are close to touching the shoulder chamber as you think and you size them and end up bumping em 2 more thousands , what if the headspace was .005 and you bump em 2 more totaling .007
what do you think might happen if you only seat .005???
id start safely away at 20 off , until you know your brass is done growing/matching the chamber
if you have consistently measured the shoulder of your fired brass and see there is a maximum measurement on all cases that is never exceeded , then you can assume they have all swollen to match your chamber ... then, a 5 off jump would never jam into lands
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RegionRat
Well-Known Member
Dusty Noggin, the difference in the headspace between the dummy case on the Stoney Point (Hornady) tool and your actual chamber, is one reason I recommended trying both methods before you assume you really know anything. The dummy round method with the ejector removed is very definitive. However, even if your shoulder has a long way to go, the same CBTO dimension applies because it doesn't use the shoulder.
All brass expands to some degree as the ignition starts, but if the CBTO is set up correctly, that bullet starts the jump at the same time regardless of how far the brass shoulder or head expand. I will theorize that you will do better with a fire-formed case that is just lightly bumped, but the CBTO value shouldn't really chase the shoulder headspace (or the belt headspace) if you have it set up correctly. The difference in pressure between a fire-formed case, and one with a huge gap, occurs when the bullet is already beyond the neck. So yes, the brass matters, but not in terms of jump.
I haven't observed huge shoulder movements on the order of 0.020" with the exception of some .303 Brit rigs, but we still set up the jump the same regardless. We see a slight drop in velocity and pressure after those .303 cases move, but it doesn't change how we look at CBTO. There will be less total difference between the runs of new loose brass versus fire-formed, if you keep the CBTO the same, as compared to adding 0.020" just to fire-form. YMMV
All brass expands to some degree as the ignition starts, but if the CBTO is set up correctly, that bullet starts the jump at the same time regardless of how far the brass shoulder or head expand. I will theorize that you will do better with a fire-formed case that is just lightly bumped, but the CBTO value shouldn't really chase the shoulder headspace (or the belt headspace) if you have it set up correctly. The difference in pressure between a fire-formed case, and one with a huge gap, occurs when the bullet is already beyond the neck. So yes, the brass matters, but not in terms of jump.
I haven't observed huge shoulder movements on the order of 0.020" with the exception of some .303 Brit rigs, but we still set up the jump the same regardless. We see a slight drop in velocity and pressure after those .303 cases move, but it doesn't change how we look at CBTO. There will be less total difference between the runs of new loose brass versus fire-formed, if you keep the CBTO the same, as compared to adding 0.020" just to fire-form. YMMV
DUSTY NOGGIN
Well-Known Member
i fully agree that removed ejector is the only way to know for sure the distance to first contact of the lands
so now that you know , your exact chamber length to first contact . and you have put that ejector back in to fire your new rounds
what is stopping the plunger from pushing the "005. off loaded round"" ogive right into the land and jamming it ???
hopefully the shoulder, because if it doesnt ... it will be your bullet stopping into the lands
i prefer not to tell someone to seat off the lands .005 until they understand the correlation between the 2 measurements
doesnt have to be 20 thousands shoulder , could be .006 just a higher number that your jump. if you know how much farther you need to swell a case up , then you're golden ... but if you dont due to new brass or new chamber or whatever , then stay 20 off until you do know ...
yes belted mags will add a variation to this topic , this but that doesnt apply to the OP cartridge
JMO
so now that you know , your exact chamber length to first contact . and you have put that ejector back in to fire your new rounds
what is stopping the plunger from pushing the "005. off loaded round"" ogive right into the land and jamming it ???
hopefully the shoulder, because if it doesnt ... it will be your bullet stopping into the lands
i prefer not to tell someone to seat off the lands .005 until they understand the correlation between the 2 measurements
doesnt have to be 20 thousands shoulder , could be .006 just a higher number that your jump. if you know how much farther you need to swell a case up , then you're golden ... but if you dont due to new brass or new chamber or whatever , then stay 20 off until you do know ...
yes belted mags will add a variation to this topic , this but that doesnt apply to the OP cartridge
JMO
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Ts3
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New issue...
I just deprimed, tumbled, and neck sized these once-fired 30 Nosler brass. I used the Redding body sizing die. Fired brass measured with the Hornady tool was 2.1815" to the shoulder with the 0.420" collet. So my target was 2.1795" for 0.002" shoulder bump.
It seemed that the shoulder actually moved out 1-2 thou as I dropped the die down. When it finally was contacting the Redding #6 shellholder it remained right at 2.181". So essentially no shoulder bump. Is this common with the standard shell holder? Need to get the competition set of shell holders?
I just deprimed, tumbled, and neck sized these once-fired 30 Nosler brass. I used the Redding body sizing die. Fired brass measured with the Hornady tool was 2.1815" to the shoulder with the 0.420" collet. So my target was 2.1795" for 0.002" shoulder bump.
It seemed that the shoulder actually moved out 1-2 thou as I dropped the die down. When it finally was contacting the Redding #6 shellholder it remained right at 2.181". So essentially no shoulder bump. Is this common with the standard shell holder? Need to get the competition set of shell holders?
DUSTY NOGGIN
Well-Known Member
i would
itll work with alot of different cases of same type
itll work with alot of different cases of same type
Redding Comp Shellholders are + not - so they won't let you size more they are for less sizing. You would need to remove material from the top of the shellholder or from the bottom of the die. The shellholder is cheaper.
