Quick Loads question

[Timnterra]

I have a request for those of you guys that run quick loads. I'm trying to find a starting place for load development on a 6.5-06. The rifle is a custom krieger 1-8" twist 26" barrel. I'm using lapua 30-06 brass necked down and fire formed. Hornady 143gr eld-x bullets and federal 210m primers. I will be seating bullets .020" off the lands to start. My question is which power and how much. The reloading manuals are all over the map on this one. Could one of you kind gentleman who has quickloads run the numbers on pressure and expected velocity for me with hodgdons h4831sc and h1000? I would be very grateful.

 

[eklarsen]

Use these numbers at your own risk...

H4831 starting at 51G gets you 49K pressure and about 2760 FPS to a max of 55.8G which gives you 65K pressure and 3018 FPS (this appears very hot).

H1000 does not appear to be a great powder for this load as a staring load of 56Gr creating 49.5K pressure and 2,838 FPS is already compressing at 102% capacity, as your brass is fire formed it may have a greater capacity. For completeness 59G will create 59K pressure and 3004 FPS but 107% of capacity.

That is for a stated pressure max of 65K

 

[Timnterra]

Awesome thank you, that at least gives me an idea of where to begin

 

[bigedp51]

To get ball park pressure and velocity data from Quickload you need a chronograph. You then adjust the burn rate in Quickload until it matches your chronograph velocity. You also need the case capacity of a "fired" case from "your" rifle to get accurate pressure and velocity data.

Example, Quickload defaults to the lowest case capacity of a give caliber and with .223/5.56 cases this can cause 6,000 psi difference in chamber pressure.

I will never understand why people who have Quickload give out reloading information when they do not have all the information needed for even a ball park guesstimate.

 

[Timnterra]

To get ball park pressure and velocity data from Quickload you need a chronograph. You then adjust the burn rate in Quickload until it matches your chronograph velocity. You also need the case capacity of a "fired" case from "your" rifle to get accurate pressure and velocity data.

Example, Quickload defaults to the lowest case capacity of a give caliber and with .223/5.56 cases this can cause 6,000 psi difference in chamber pressure.

I will never understand why people who have Quickload give out reloading information when they do not have all the information needed for even a ball park guesstimate.

Thanks for this. How can I provide an accurate case capacity? Weigh the case then fill with water and weigh again? So if I fire a round with a given power charge and note the chronograph data that should be adequate to give a proper estimate?

 

[Mikecr]

Over here people post their loads: 6.5-06 @ www.reloadersnest.com
Pick your situation, down load & work up carefully.

Nobody should be posting QuickLoad estimates online.
Nobody should be asking for this.
Buy the software for it.

 

[bigedp51]

Thanks for this. How can I provide an accurate case capacity? Weigh the case then fill with water and weigh again? So if I fire a round with a given power charge and note the chronograph data that should be adequate to give a proper estimate?

There is no way a software program can give "accurate" information with all the variations in firearms and reloading components. And Quickload "MUST" be tweaked and adjusted after you input corrected data.

I have Quickload and I do not give its output to anyone because there is too much to be adjusted to even get a "ball park" guesstimate.

Just do a workup load the old fashioned way starting at the suggested start load and work up. This way you will learn about your rifle and the components used for that load.

Quickload is not a miracle software program and to get reasonably accurate pressure and velocity data you need a chronograph and adjust Quickload to match the chronograph.

Simply put you can't enter the powder charge from a reloading manual and get the same velocity and chamber pressure range. "After" I bought Quickload I had to buy a chronograph to tweak and adjust Quickload to get the "approximate" chamber pressure and velocities.

Now look below at the Rockwell hardness of .223 cases, the "softer" cases will show pressure signs before the harder brass. The same goes for primers with different thickness and hardness.

How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...r-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/

Bottom line someone could give you Quickload data and it could end up blowing up in your face. Everyone should stop asking for Quickload data and anyone with Quickload should "STOP" giving out Quicload data on the Internet. This is the very reason why the reloading manuals tell you to start low and work up.

 

[eklarsen]

To get ball park pressure and velocity data from Quickload you need a chronograph. You then adjust the burn rate in Quickload until it matches your chronograph velocity. You also need the case capacity of a "fired" case from "your" rifle to get accurate pressure and velocity data.

Example, Quickload defaults to the lowest case capacity of a give caliber and with .223/5.56 cases this can cause 6,000 psi difference in chamber pressure.

I will never understand why people who have Quickload give out reloading information when they do not have all the information needed for even a ball park guesstimate.

I think I gave him exactly what he needed with the proper guidance on where I didn't have enough info to be accurate. I frankly don't care what you think but I was trying to assist a fellow shooter, you obviously have other motivations.

 

[bigedp51]

I think I gave him exactly what he needed with the proper guidance on where I didn't have enough info to be accurate. I frankly don't care what you think but I was trying to assist a fellow shooter, you obviously have other motivations.

WARNING: QuickLOAD is a computer simulation of centerfire cartridge performance. YOU MUST NEVER just "plug in the numbers" and use QuickLOAD's output for a load recipe. That is foolish and dangerous. There are many reasons why the data QuickLOAD generates may not be safe in YOUR gun. Before loading live ammunition, you should always check with the powder-makers' most recent load data. In fact, you should check multiple sources if possible, and consult with individuals who actually load for that cartridge. Sierra Bullets offers free load maps which, in general, are fairly conservative. Even when using manufacturers' load data, start 10% low and work up. Differences in brass, primer brand, and seating depth can make huge differences in pressure. Always reload conservatively and always double- and triple-check QuickLOAD's output against reliable load data supplied by the powder-makers.


http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/test-quickload-review/

Adjusting the Powder Burn rate Factor and the Bullet Weight to Help Match
QL to Range Chronograph Data:

http://www.the-long-family.com/Tuning QL to achieve best results.pdf

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...d-data-burn-rate-bullet-weight-changes-41851/

 

[CatShooter]

Use these numbers at your own risk...

H4831 starting at 51G gets you 49K pressure and about 2760 FPS to a max of 55.8G which gives you 65K pressure and 3018 FPS (this appears very hot).

H1000 does not appear to be a great powder for this load as a staring load of 56Gr creating 49.5K pressure and 2,838 FPS is already compressing at 102% capacity, as your brass is fire formed it may have a greater capacity. For completeness 59G will create 59K pressure and 3004 FPS but 107% of capacity.

That is for a stated pressure max of 65K

1 - Does H4831 starting at 51G gets you 49K pressure and about 2760 FPS to a max of 55.8G which gives you 65K pressure and 3018 FPS??

2 - Does a staring load of 56Gr creating 49.5K pressure and 2,838 FPS is already compressing at 102% capacity, as your brass is fire formed it may have a greater capacity. For completeness 59G will create 59K pressure and 3004 FPS??

They do NOT!!

The handloading community has an insatiable hunger for information and data... which is a healthy (and normal) thing.

Unfortunately, this hunger makes them suckers for faux data.

There is an old saying - "If you can't blind them with brilliance, then baffle them with Bull poopie."

If you ever spend any time in the real (commercial) ammunition business, you quickly realize how approximate every thing is - it is an industry that is driven by the concept of "Kinda close I think."

Take a bunch of perfect cartridges, cases are all the same weight, necks are exactly the same wall thickness, and annealed to exactly the same Brinell # hardness, powder weighed with an analytical laboratory scale, same primers, etc, etc, etc...
... and send 10 of each cartridge to each of the ammunition makers in the country, and ask them "What pressure and velocity do these cartridges make"... and you will get a scattering of seemingly random numbers, not even close to each other.

So.... what is done is each manufacture is assigned to be responsible for a group of cartridges - they make the "O-fish-ul standards" for that calibre.

So Remington is assigned the 237 Express, and Winchester loads it, then Winchester buys "Standard" carts from Rem and uses them to calibrate their pressure gun for that calibre... and that production run.
When they start the next run, or reach the next calibration stage, they get more "Standard" carts from Remington.
Which means, in reality, all Winchester is doing, is duplicating the Remington standard cartridge - they don't even have to know any numbers - the gauge could be in Arabic notation, for all that it matters, just set the gauge to "Same as Rem" setting

When you understand how the system works, and how inaccurate pressure guns are, you will understand how silly it is to think a computer program says...

"H4831 starting at 51G gets you 49K pressure and about 2760 FPS to a max of 55.8G which gives you 65K pressure and 3018 FPS."

... and that sentence would have any value or meaning. (But it sounds so, like, scientificy)!

Quickload hasn't got the slightest idea what the velocity is. If it did, you wouldn't have to tweek the burning rate to get the numbers to jive.

It is like saying to the car dealer, "You said this car would give me 43 miles to the gallon, but it only gives me 36."

"Well, change the length of your mile by 0.84 and you will get 43 miles to the gallon, just like I said"

Quickload claims to give you all kinds of "Data", but it is faux data - stuff than cannot be calculated, even if you have the gun in your hands and are testing it right now. And much of the screen data (clutter) has zero value to anyone... but it looks so impressive, doesn't it?

All it can really give you, an approximations of starting and max loads, and approximations of velocities... all the rest is window dressings for those who want to sound "scientific like" to their friends.