Questioning Berger 7mm 168gr VLD Hunter

[matemike]

My load is once fired Federal brass, 65 gr of H-1000, CCI 250 primer and a Berger .284 168gr VLD Hunting bullet (HPBT) for my 7mm Rem Mag.

The round is wonderfully accurate. It shoots .5 MOA at 300 yards and MOA out to 1,000.

I took it on a whitetail hunt this week. I shot a spike through both lungs at about 175 yards and the bullet just zipped right through the deer. It walked off slowly around a bush and fell maybe 30 yards away. I still consider this a clean kill. But I'm used to the deer flopping over right there when shot with my 7 mag.
9 out of 10 were shot-flops before I started using my hand loads.

The exit hole on this spike was not nearly at violent looking as I'm used to seeing with Federal 160 gr plastic tip factory ammo. The entry hole was right where I wanted, a little behind the shoulder. I chose that spot as opposed to where I normally shoot with the factory ammo; directly on the shoulder. Reason for that is because I've never used a VLD to shoot a deer before and was worried the carnage from the HP would have completely destroyed the opposite shoulder, so I chose to double lung shoot him and save the shoulders. This may be the reason for the deer walking off before dying.

I admit it's my own fault for not knowing the velocity of my load. I can estimate it to be around 2720 with 65 gr of H-1000. This seems like a workable speed for the VLD at 175 yards, doesn't it?

Should I not worry about it and just continue using this load, maybe change my POI choice back to my original one; on the shoulder? That seems like the easiest variable to change and probably the largest variable between my scenarios, it's just the least often one to come by.

Turns out I'm questioning the shot placement of choice for you guys hunting white tails with the 168 gr .284 Berger VLD's.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'm not sure what to tell you, as I shoot 168 VLD's out of my 7mmRM and shoot deer in the same spot as you did. I never have a problem. I don't like to shoulder shoot them unless I have no other shot. I try to conserve as much meat as possible, and there ain't no meat worth saving on a whitetail's ribs (other than backstraps).

That being said, I would give it another go, you might have just had one of those really rare shots where you missed all bone and it never fully expanded. Or the bulelt could have had a boogered tip on it. Checking them before hunting and making sure the tips are clear of debris and perfectly round will help ALOT. That's happened to me before, but a 30 yard run isn't bad. I've had them run alot farther than that years ago when I was a slave to factory loaded offerings, before handloading with good bullets.

Also a meplat trimmer for the VLD bullets might help from uniforming the tip to make sure they expand and are not closed up from excess material during the manufacturing process. I have been meaning to buy one myself, but have not gotten around to it yet.

 

[4bycamper]

My load is once fired Federal brass, 65 gr of H-1000, CCI 250 primer and a Berger .284 168gr VLD Hunting bullet (HPBT) for my 7mm Rem Mag.
Turns out I'm questioning the shot placement of choice for you guys hunting white tails with the 168 gr .284 Berger VLD's.

Funny thing, I'm shooting exactly the same load in my 7 saum. But I'm hunting elk.
Sounds like a clean kill to me. That bullet didn't fail - it just failed to hit anything hard like a rib. Still... no fault - no blame.

If you're using the 168 vld for the long range advantage, well there you are.
But if you want a more explosive hunting result, you're gonna need a lighter, faster bullet. Maybe a 150 AB or 139 Hornady SST at 3000 fps?

Good Shooting

 

[bigngreen]

What did the wound channel through the vitals look like?

 

[CogburnR]

I just shot a deer with a 7RM. 69.5g H1000 and a Berger 168 Classic Hunter 2980fps.

Heart was purple hamburger with a not quite fist sized exit hole in the ribcage (50 yards).

 

[roninflag]

mike- i had good results on a bighorn sheep . it seemed like it opened up a little too fast. worked though sheep went about 15 feet, the bullet did not exit. 168 at 2926. you could try a 140 berger. faster and flatter, less kick. for years i used a horn 139 btsp exclusively on deer and elk . it worked great.

 

[Dosh]

MM, my in law hit a large mulie in the lung/ heart @ 180, bang flop with the 168 VLD in his 7mm RM Rem 700. The heart/ lungs were liquid, no exit. Have read other posts similar to yours, yours must have not found anything to expand. I've never seen a Berger VLD do that in numerous game I've seen shot with them. Makes me wonder if a Accubond or partition would have done the same pass through with the identical path.
I'm with Mudrunner, will get a meplat trimmer soon. Have been using a jury rigged device to trim with.

 

[dkhunt14]

Speed and twist is what really open up bullets. You should chronograph it see what it is going. The velocity you are saying sounds to be quite slow. You need to check it and see. If I didn't have pressure I would load a little hotter. Matt

 

[matemike]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Like I said, it is undeniably a success story. I just wondered why I didn't get the shot-flop. Seems like it was one of the unlikely chances I didn't get a DRT harvest.

I do need to chrono my load. I'll answer back once that happens.

Again, nothing has turned me off of the berger bullets. I'll still gladly take the Berger Bullet Bundle if I win the raffle. I'll get my assortment of .284's, .30's and .338's.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

Is it the hunting of the target version? In my experience the target version will do this. Still kills but it does not create as much internal damage.
Doing anything to the metplate will drastically change your BCs. If you do this recheck your drops and change as necessary.

 

[matemike]

they are the hunting VLD's for sure

 

[cohunter14]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Like I said, it is undeniably a success story. I just wondered why I didn't get the shot-flop.

More than likely you aren't going to get the bang-flop results if you aren't taking out the shoulder. 30 yards would seem pretty normal to me for a shot behind the shoulder and through the heart/lungs.

 

[Bob lee]

I had the same results with the only 2 deer i ever shot with a berger except they went 50 and 125 yards, that was the end of big game hunting with berger bullets for me.

 

[elkaholic]

This is not entirely uncommon. You may shoot 10 more in the same spot at the same velocity and get a baseball sized exit. The problem occurs because it is difficult for bullets with very small meplats, like Berger, to perform the same every shot! The most likely cause, in this case, probably happened because the tip was closed. Your impact velocity was PLENTY high enough for a Berger to expand! I use a .040" drill bit to clean out the tips. You will find that most are open, but some are not. This occurs because, in the tip forming process, they are squeezing a.284" diameter jacket with .014" wall thickness down to approx. .060" O.D. A lot of jacket wrinkling occurs during this process, as you can well imagine. I do the same thing with other manufactures as well (i.e. Matrix etc.) although it doesn't seem to occur as often with the Matrix. A ballistic tip bullet will always be more consistent, but not necessarily better. One positive for the Berger is that they will penetrate a little before they expand and the bt will expand immediately.............Rich