Question about custom dies

[calgarycanada]

Hello guys and gals

I'm in process of building myself a competition oriented gun based on modified 284 win. Now I'm looking to get dies made. I have two quick questions

First, Out of Widden and CH4D which one would you pick? Price wise Widden is more($280 for two die set, CH4D $250 for 3 die set), turn around times are almost the same. Are Widden worth the extra $$? I'm not worried about $30 difference but more if I should have separate neck sizer.

Second, is it ok to have dies made based on reamer print or is it better to have them made based on fired cases?

 

[IdahoCTD]

It's better to use fired cases as a reamer might not be as exact as the print. Whidden dies are nicer IMO.

 

[FearNoWind]

What he said ^^^^^ (once fired cases .....)

 

[dkhunt14]

Also you don't need a neck sizer. Full length sizing is better. All benchrest shooters short and long full length size. Matt

 

[calgarycanada]

Ok thanks. I will send some cases to Widden.

 

[adam32]

All benchrest shooters short and long full length size. Matt

Since when?

 

[dkhunt14]

I Know over a hundred 1000 yard benchresters and at least 20 PPC shooters. They all full length resize. If you shoot the cartridge at the full potential the brass will develop the bolt click. That is bad because it upsets the gun in the bag. They usually set the die up to give a .002 bump on the shoulder. They use a full length bushing die and that way they tune with tension. They have been doing this for a very long time. A lot of the PPC guys use a custom die but it full length sizes and has bushings to control the size of the neck. If you don't believe this go ask the question on 6BR or Benchrest central because a lot of Benchrest guys hang out on there. Matt

 

[BountyHunter]

Spot on Matt!!!!!!

 

[SteveBurton]

They usually set the die up to give a .002 bump on the shoulder. They use a full length bushing die and that way they tune with tension. Matt

I use a neck sizing die and have wondered about sizing this way instead. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

 

[jrivera1]

Hello guys and gals

I'm in process of building myself a competition oriented gun based on modified 284 win. Now I'm looking to get dies made. I have two quick questions

First, Out of Widden and CH4D which one would you pick? Price wise Widden is more($280 for two die set, CH4D $250 for 3 die set), turn around times are almost the same. Are Widden worth the extra $$? I'm not worried about $30 difference but more if I should have separate neck sizer.

Second, is it ok to have dies made based on reamer print or is it better to have them made based on fired cases?

I am no expert and this is just my opinion, but I do own at least one product from both choices - Whidden and CH4D

I bought a Whidden's Bullet Pointing Die System (one of many mistake I've made in my learning quest) a few years back for the .338 Berger 300gr VLD bullet. I paid around $250, which in my opinion was way too much for this product which felt like a toy. I believe that if your going to pay that much money for something it should feel like a solid piece of steel.

It did do a great job pointing bullets.

Now - recently I bought some custom dies from CH4D for my .375 AM and this is what I got. Inline Micrometer Seater and a FL Sizing Die. They were about $600 I had to pay extra for 1.5 X 12 tpi. Right away you can feel the quality and precision. I haven't had a chance to use them since I haven't received the rifle yet, but I am confident they will do an excellent job.

Good Luck with your dies and like alway, Be Safe

 

[jrivera1]

Here is an excellent article and a Thread about Reamer, Chamber and Die dimensions.

Why You Will Not Get Accurate Dies If You Use Your Chamber Reamer « Gun Club of America

Chamber reamer to match wildcat dies - best way to get ....

 

[dkhunt14]

That is a good article but shooting hot loads is not the only way you can get sticky bolt. There is also a difference between a hot load making opening of the bolt hard or a bolt click. In bolt click the bolt will usually open part way easily and near the top of lift it gets real hard like a pop or click. This is caused by the sizing die not sizing the base of the case not enough or at all. It happens when it hits the extaction part. Usually this condition will not show up until the second or third firing because it takes more then one firing to get to this condition just like it does to get sharp shoulders on a fireformed case Like a 6 Dasher. Dies need to match the reamer. Matt

 

[jrivera1]

That is a good article but shooting hot loads is not the only way you can get sticky bolt. There is also a difference between a hot load making opening of the bolt hard or a bolt click. In bolt click the bolt will usually open part way easily and near the top of lift it gets real hard like a pop or click. This is caused by the sizing die not sizing the base of the case not enough or at all. It happens when it hits the extaction part. Usually this condition will not show up until the second or third firing because it takes more then one firing to get to this condition just like it does to get sharp shoulders on a fireformed case Like a 6 Dasher. Dies need to match the reamer. Matt

This is the first time I hear about this bolt Click, Good info.
There is a lot I have to learn about Reamer, Chamber and Die Dimensions.

Thanks Matt.

 

[Mikecr]

dkhunt14's close but dies don't cause clicking bolt turn.
Clicking opening of bolts is due to the interference fit firing leaves between a chamber and web area of cases. The cause is very high pressure and/or loose chamber clearances there, and/or not enough barrel steel around the chamber, and/or loose threading at the breach end of the tenon.
Your body sizing will either counter this problem to manageable or not, but a die never causes it.

The problem can be mitigated by measuring new brass in-hand and and setting your reamer no more than 1thou over at .200" datum, and by ensuring use of a magnum diameter action/tenon for magnum diameter cases, and choosing a barrel finisher who's proud of his threading fit.
Then you run rational pressure loads, which is easy with the right H20 capacity in chosen cartridge.
In other words, it takes a plan.

Where you plan is to machine-gun rounds down range between conditions, with a tiny and sloppy fit underbore, in a short ~10.5lb gun kind of action, running at an extreme pressure node (for point blank range shooting), well then you're either accepting interference fits to extract, or band aids to relieve the condition(small base dies). This is not a solution, but management of an accepted problem.