Novice question about bushing dies

nksmfamjp

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Jan 5, 2004
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1,050
Understood but does a bushing die come with a Expander ball?
Wouldn't that be counterproductive to using the bushing principle if you stretch the neck after sizing it down to the required optimum sizing?
Am I missing something?
They come with one to push neck thickness variation to the outside surface so it doesn’t effect bullet runout. If you choose not to use it, that is your choice.

Neck turning or very high quality brass make this unnecessary too.
 

jdyoung

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Ironman Country
Ok so when I reload, I will have to
1) use body die
Then
2) use the neck die
Then
3) seat bullet

why do I put the neck bushing in the body die at all then?

and the brass has a neck thickness of .0158 so what I did was
.0158+.0158+.308= .3396
So I did
.3396-.002=.3376
.3396-.001=.3386

so I picked up the .337 and .338 bushings

using ADG brass
Your caliber is .30 Nosler ?
Last I heard, the body die doesn't use a neck bushing.
Not being in a hurry, I inspect cases and use a case gauge to determine how the new cartridges will fit a SAMMI chamber for my cartridge. (my preference is L.E. Wilson case gauge.)
Initially, I would run the new brass through the a neck die adjusted to size the full neck. This will take the "shipping ripples" out of the neck, make it round. ( You could also use your bushing neck die with an expander installed )
Process prep the brass , load 'em and shoot.
Then use the case gauge on the fired brass to determine the affect of first firing, and when the body die is needed .
 

epoletna

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Jan 10, 2015
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400
Location
Northern Nevada
I think maybe you are not recognizing in your original post that the neck walls might be of a different thickness on different pieces of brass, so you will want to pull a resizing ball or an expander mandrel through it before trying to load a bullet into it. That's the reason I turn the necks on my benchrest calibers before I load it the first time. That way I know the neck walls are a consistent thickness, so when I neck the case down the first time and then run an expander plug into it, I will end up with consistent inside/outside diameters - and hopefully, consistent resistance when the bullet begins to move.
 

Troutslayer2

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May 28, 2010
Messages
443
Well dude could just back his sizing die out a ways so that all he’s doing with it is pushing the expander ball in and out of the neck. That would help to uniform the neck tension and not work the neck unnecessarily. If new brass fits in my chamber (always has) then I don’t see a reason to make it any smaller.
 

Lahunter76

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Man this reloading can really get deep, atleast it seems that way to me. Atm I have a hornady neck turner, I have never used it tho. I can see this will all be a lot of practice. For the moment I do not plan on all the work with the necks, I will eventually but for now I am just wanting to practice in making high quality hunting ammo and work my way into the other. I will keep working at getting better at different aspects but just starting out.
 

whirlwindjml

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Aug 23, 2009
Messages
393
Location
Rathdrum Idaho
Ok so when I reload, I will have to
1) use body die
Then
2) use the neck die
Then
3) seat bullet

why do I put the neck bushing in the body die at all then?

and the brass has a neck thickness of .0158 so what I did was
.0158+.0158+.308= .3396
So I did
.3396-.002=.3376
.3396-.001=.3386

so I picked up the .337 and .338 bushings

using ADG brass
Yor kit came with the neck size die but you dont need it for 99%. Some people like sizing necks only. On the virgin brass that's fine to use. After several shots your case will be swollen and you'll have hard time extracting cases after you fire.

For most purposes just use the fl bush die and life will be good. I go for .001 neck but for hunting some like more.
 

whirlwindjml

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Aug 23, 2009
Messages
393
Location
Rathdrum Idaho
Man this reloading can really get deep, atleast it seems that way to me. Atm I have a hornady neck turner, I have never used it tho. I can see this will all be a lot of practice. For the moment I do not plan on all the work with the necks, I will eventually but for now I am just wanting to practice in making high quality hunting ammo and work my way into the other. I will keep working at getting better at different aspects but just starting out.
I have great results without neck turning. It hasn't showed up on the targets for me. You bought nice dies but fl size. Your brass will last just fine.
 

Roninco

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New brass is as small as it will ever be, and the necks will be very tight. Running it through a body or full length die will not reduce it's size any more. But using the expanding ball or a mandrel will round the necks and open them to a more useable diameter. It will also push neck thickness differences from the inside to the outside.
 

Litrfoot

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Jan 9, 2019
Messages
57
Location
California
Ok so when I reload, I will have to
1) use body die
Then
2) use the neck die
Then
3) seat bullet

why do I put the neck bushing in the body die at all then?

and the brass has a neck thickness of .0158 so what I did was
.0158+.0158+.308= .3396
So I did
.3396-.002=.3376
.3396-.001=.3386

so I picked up the .337 and .338 bushings

using ADG brass
What you have is a three die set, a seater, bushing neck die, and a body die! First on your neck die it should have come with an expander ball and a mandrel? Mine all did. Don’t use the ball! Use the mandrel. It will give you the best results! First loading just neck it, load and shoot.

The bushing is only for the neck die, nothing else.

The body die is to size the body and bump the shoulder.

So loading your 1xfired, if you use Redding comp inserts great, screw the body die down onto the .010 insert with the ram raised, lower the ram turn the die 1/8th and lock it. You should now have a slight camover. Measure the brass before sizing (head space gauge). You are looking for a .002 set back or what ever you like. If you don’t get that change to the next insert, .008, and size. Continue until you achieve your set back.

Now if you don’t use those inserts the the set up is a little different. Raise the ram screw the die down till it touches the back it off a 1/4 turn, the size and check the head space.

So the way I attack is tumble and clean, anneal, cool, lube, body size, neck and de-cap, trim and back in the tumbler to clean off the lube. Pull it out brush the necks, prime, powder, and seat.

Hope this helps?
 

Litrfoot

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Jan 9, 2019
Messages
57
Location
California
Why? What is the ball included in the die set for?
Expander ball or button. because when you size the neck with a precision bushing and pull the expander button back through on the up stroke up open the neck back up defeating the whole purpose of a neck bushing.
 

Mikecr

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Aug 10, 2003
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NC, oceanfront
Neck expansion does not defeat the purpose of downsizing, it's just that pulling expanders through necks comes with detriment as well as gain.
Mandrels, used with mandrel dies, work far better than button/balls included with common dies.

Neck expansion is a pre-seating operation. The spring back from it is biased inward(holding tension) instead of creeping outward(losing tension) over time. It drives thickness variances outward, away from seating bullet bearing (lowering TIR).
 

nksmfamjp

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Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
1,050
@Mikecr....thanks for your explanation. Have you sized dies both ways and compared your data?

I did. I noticed that Forster die sets produced that lowest runout with nice smooth necks. Generally under 0.001”.

Redding dies with the expander were next best. Generally around 0.0015”. Without the ball, the necks didn’t iron out perfectly straight. They were slightly curled in at the top.
 

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