Problem with CPS

[Miles Killian]

so I've just started using the CPS and right from the start it is giving me problems. With my K+M hand priming tool I can seat primers that consistently measure .008" below flush. The CPS seems like it is crushing the primers at around .004-.005" below flush instead of seating them deeper. At least that is what I thought at first. A mark would appear on what was a previously smooth cup that looked like the anvil was coming through the cup. However, upon further examination I discovered that the seating rod isn't smooth on the end. It has a little circular indentation in the center and circular ridges radiating out from the center and these markings are being pressed into my primer cups.
Also, based on the advertising I should be able to seat a primer to .004" then turn the wheel one click and seat the next one to .005". I haven't found that to be true.
Since lots of users are happy with the CPS I am assuming I am doing something wrong. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Crush of priming compound and measurement from flush to primer depth are NOT the same.
Those little raised sections on your priming rod is called a 'tit' in machining circles, speak with CPS about having them replaced, this is what's causing your measurement issues.
My CPS unit does exactly what's advertised.
Just so you know, crush is measured once the anvil is flush with the cup, this is NOT measured from the head of the case initially…
The tit on mine is barely there…

Cheers.

 

[ZReed85]

They will take care of you. I had a little issue with the primer tube with mine when I bought it a few years ago. They sent a new tube the same day I called without hesitation.

The CPS has been one my best reloading purchases

 

[Miles Killian]

Crush of priming compound and measurement from flush to primer depth are NOT the same.
Those little raised sections on your priming rod is called a 'tit' in machining circles, speak with CPS about having them replaced, this is what's causing your measurement issues.
My CPS unit does exactly what's advertised.
Just so you know, crush is measured once the anvil is flush with the cup, this is NOT measured from the head of the case initially…
The tit on mine is barely there…

Cheers.

Yes, 'tit' is what I would call them as well.
Regarding "crush" I must disagree. Crush is based on primer pocket depth, primer thickness and cup thickness. Crush doesn't start when the anvil is flush with the cup it finishes at that point and no further crush is possible because the cup itself is bottomed out in the pocket.
I think the case could be made that we don't actually measure crush, we measure how far the primer is seated below flush with the case head and then do some math to determine, not measure, crush.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Yes, 'tit' is what I would call them as well.
Regarding "crush" I must disagree. Crush is based on primer pocket depth, primer thickness and cup thickness. Crush doesn't start when the anvil is flush with the cup it finishes at that point and no further crush is possible because the cup itself is bottomed out in the pocket.
I think the case could be made that we don't actually measure crush, we measure how far the primer is seated below flush with the case head and then do some math to determine, not measure, crush.

You are completely wrong, crush has NOTHING to with primer pocket depth, cup thickness or any other dimension you quoted…
I am no longer educating anyone on this forum, do your own research before blatantly stating falsehoods…primers are made with the anvil PROUD with the anvil for a very good reason, look it up because I am not educating you, those days on this forum have come to an end.

Cheers.

 

[Miles Killian]

You are completely wrong, crush has NOTHING to with primer pocket depth, cup thickness or any other dimension you quoted…
I am no longer educating anyone on this forum, do your own research before blatantly stating falsehoods…primers are made with the anvil PROUD with the anvil for a very good reason, look it up because I am not educating you, those days on this forum have come to an end.

Cheers.

Perhaps we are talking about different things or I'm expressing it differently.
This person is saying what I'm trying to say.

 

[QuietTexan]

Also, based on the advertising I should be able to seat a primer to .004" then turn the wheel one click and seat the next one to .005". I haven't found that to be true.

You should call Greg and talk to him about how to use the machine, he's a really nice guy. Based on what he and I have discussed, what you're saying is not an accurate statement. The seating stem will move 0.001" increments, but that does not translate to linear movement of the primer relative to the case head.

This is an excerpt from notes I took while on the phone with Greg when I bought mine:

0.001" increment on the CPS does NOT translate to 0.001" of linear travel of primer relative to case base. Cup might deform or brass might deform. Deformation will cause a change in the ignition timing. (CCI tends to have more anvil protrusion than Federal, so CCI will have a larger testing range than Federal). 0.005" of linear movement of the primer might be 7-8 clicks on the CPS. Set testing intervals in 0.001" on the CPS, set 3 rounds per "testing level" AKA 1-CLICK until you move through the full calculated range (0.005" wide).

He also said don't bother using the PrimeWhere I bought from him for a least 300-500 rounds, maybe even up to 1000 to make sure the CPS wears in. I reprimed a ton of LC 5.56 with the crimp mostly cut out to give it a good workout. Produces much more consistent results than when it was new, it's a mechanical thing with parts tolerances in it.

Yard on the thing too, you have to make a very firm pull against the stop and do it consistently to get the primers to seat the same. If you aren't bumping the stop you'll see variance from that also.

Also is there a tit on both ends of the pin? Maybe just turn the pin over.

 

[Mikecr]

If you were using the indicated K&M, you would be able to directly read actual primer crush.
This, instead of shooting for some arbitrary value from case head.

Also, it should not take a lot of force from your CPS to accomplish bottom + a couple thou crush.
Seems like something else is wrong.

 

[QuietTexan]

It doesn't take a lot of force, it takes pulling against the stop consistently, not just to the stop. If you pause anywhere in the stroke there's a measurable variance in seating depth. Since most of the meaningful primer movement is in the last maybe 1/4 of the stroke, the movement needs to be consistent through that entire phase, not letting up when you feel it engaging.

The same would be true of a hand seater, but that's a total movement of what an inch and a half of the lever tip there. Versus a full arm motion rotating a lever 90* along an 18" (?) arc? Basically more time to mess up on the CPS since the tool moves more. I use the crippled hand extender so it's an even longer movement on mine, but takes less force to pull consistently.

 

[Miles Killian]

If you were using the indicated K&M, you would be able to directly read actual primer crush.
This, instead of shooting for some arbitrary value from case head.

Also, it should not take a lot of force from your CPS to accomplish bottom + a couple thou crush.
Seems like something else is wrong.

I will look into that

 

[Miles Killian]

You should call Greg and talk to him about how to use the machine, he's a really nice guy. Based on what he and I have discussed, what you're saying is not an accurate statement. The seating stem will move 0.001" increments, but that does not translate to linear movement of the primer relative to the case head.

This is an excerpt from notes I took while on the phone with Greg when I bought mine:


He also said don't bother using the PrimeWhere I bought from him for a least 300-500 rounds, maybe even up to 1000 to make sure the CPS wears in. I reprimed a ton of LC 5.56 with the crimp mostly cut out to give it a good workout. Produces much more consistent results than when it was new, it's a mechanical thing with parts tolerances in it.

Yard on the thing too, you have to make a very firm pull against the stop and do it consistently to get the primers to seat the same. If you aren't bumping the stop you'll see variance from that also.

Also is there a tit on both ends of the pin? Maybe just turn the pin over.

I wasn't going to bring up Greg but you did so here goes.
Despite following the directions that come with the product in regards to how to measure primer pocket depth etc he spoke to me in what I perceived as a condescending manner because I used calipers as he instructed and then proceeded to give me a sales pitch for his $800 PrimeWare tool. When I pointed that out to him he seemed to get offended that that is what I took out of the conversation, he said since you are obviously not happy send the CPS back and has ceased talking to me.
Also, for $600 I would expect a product that didn't have "tits" that deformed my primers.
I had the CPS all boxed up to send back but then I unpacked it it because I thought I had an epiphany regarding what I was doing wrong but I still can't get it to work so I think I will return it.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Perhaps we are talking about different things or I'm expressing it differently.
This person is saying what I'm trying to say.

Whoever this is, is a fool. The anvil DOES NOT compress, the cup compresses once the anvil bottoms out in the cup.
Anyway, that's as far as my knowledge will go here. I am fed up trying to educate those here that CANNOT or WILL NOT do their own research or try to change their ways.
Good luck with your endeavours.

Cheers.

 

[Mikecr]

 

[orkan]

You should call Greg and talk to him about how to use the machine, he's a really nice guy.

I'm only a nice guy to people that conduct themselves in an honorable fashion. When people demonstrate that their feelings and their inferiority complex are more important to them than the truth... and they want me to come to fairytale land and affirm their idiocy, I'm not a nice guy at all.

They are the same kind of people that think men can get pregnant. That's why you and I got along... you're not an idiot.

I've had the same conversation about primer seating depth methodology hundreds of times. The same one I had with @QuietTexan and countless others. One person out of a thousand complains about me trying to "talk over their head" and "give them a sales pitch." I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is. Everyone else thanks me for my insight and time. I pride myself on explaining extremely complex topics in very simple terms. Mentoring shooters is what I do. It's what I do for a living, not just a hobby. Some people are just incapable of understanding the reality at hand, and they think that's my fault. Then they think they can badmouth and disrespect me, and I'm suppose to talk to them still. lol

Nah, I think not.

I got this guys CPS back and a refund check has been issued.

To celebrate never having to deal with him ever again, I'm giving that CPS away here in this thread. Don't worry, I checked it over... and as suspected, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. So when you get it just give me a call and I'll have the same chat I had with @QuietTexan and everyone else that ever wants to learn how to properly prime brass and you'll be priming like a pro in no time.

So, how should we choose who gets this CPS? I'd like it to go to someone that's actually going to use it. If you'd like a CPS, advocate for yourself here... then we'll let those that already have a CPS vote on who gets it? I'm open to better ideas.

Remember folks, you'll never find someone attacking someone else on the internet, that has a life you'd want. They are all miserable with crappy lives. If they couldn't rip people down on the internet all day and try to prop up their lack of experience with their false claims of authority... they'd die right then and there.

So ignore them... and let the angry stupid people do what angry stupid people do. They are posers. Most of them don't even shoot. Don't even acknowledge their presence. Instead have a look at the smile on my face with my 82" pronghorn from this year, with my new 7 PRC Primal carbon fiber build from Stratton Custom Rifles.



Live a life full of joy and when someone decides to attack you... ignore them. It's not your job to make them like you. Go do all the things you want to do and leave them right where you found them. You don't have to tell them to go to hell, because they are already there. Let them tantrum like a little toddler while you walk away with a smile.



Now lets find this CPS a proper home.