Pics of Berger Bullets NOT Performing????

[oldmossy]

Between me and my two friends, we shot 3 muledeer and 3 elk in colorado this year at ranges: 260,330,420,460,530,and 860. Then at home we killed 3 whitetail at ranges:570,730,and 1015. Every animal shot dropped in their tracks except the 1015 yd whitetail. Poor shot placement being the cause. Low and back was first hit. Second hit behind shoulders and 10yd distance traveled after that. We all three shoot 7mm RUM with 180 bergers. We didn't have a single instance where the bullets didn't expand. We did have exit holes on all three whitetails. But none of the colorado animals. The 1015 yd whitetails exit holes werent that large,probably 1 inch, but the bloodshot and overall performance was very good. I do have some picts on my phone, but not sure how to get them onto this forum. I'll try to get back with those.

 

[Weiberg]

210s work for me no problems and friends 4 Roosevelt elk 1 mule deer buck and 2 blacktail bucks

 

[Eric Stecker]

i am new to reloading but they just leave a slight ring on the bergers not all of them. none that ever have a burr just seen the ring mentioned and thought id comment so i dont hinder bullet performance

Kakorb,

Phorwath's suggestion is a good one. For other's reading this thread I'll relay that this ring is the result of a difference in the angle of the seating stem cone and the bullet ogive (nose). This difference in angle results in contact at a very thin point (which causes the ring) rather than on a flat. The tighter your neck tension the more pronounced the ring will be.

This ring should not impact performance. For those who want to get rid of the ring Phorwath's solution will work. Alternatively, Redding has introduced a line of "VLD" seater stems that fit into their existing dies. The cone angle in these stems were shaped using our VLD bullets. This results in contact over a wide band rather than a thin point (ring).

All,

I am still following this thread to respond when I believe I can be helpful. Our testing will take time but we will continue to work on this situation until we can sort out why these things occur even if they occur infrequently.

Regards,
Eric

 

[liltank]

Kakorb,
All,

I am still following this thread to respond when I believe I can be helpful. Our testing will take time but we will continue to work on this situation until we can sort out why these things occur even if they occur infrequently.

Regards,
Eric

Hi Eric,
Just to give support, I think you offer an excellent product. I have great result in three different calibers with multiple bullets. Just a little FYI, the 168 30cal Hybrid does very well on Whitetail.

Tank

 

[Joe King]

i checked my 7mm08 loaded shells four you could not put a pin in the hollow point one would with pressure and five did easily. loaded some for my stw and out of six bullets three werent hollow. i loaded the three good ones and and rechecked my press did not close them. i noticed the tips are not uniform on alot of them.

yea thats just the nature of bullet swagging, unfortunately the only thing you can do about it is to uniform the meplat and re/point if you want, but the all bets are off as to how that bullet will perform. somebody had a link I believe for a tool that would (countersink for lack of better term) the meplat, but there again all bets are off until YOU get it perfected. Bullet manufactures don't do this, obvious reason to me is because it adds 2 more steps to the process and increases cost by possibly prohibitive amounts.

Checking the opening, not sure if it will help or not, I'm doing it though, keep 50 or so set aside for hunting only and practice with the rest, I set next to the missus watching tv the other day doing that.

 

[kakorb]

so i shot my wifes browing xbolt 7mm08 into a box with osb and magazines at 75 yards. about 2inchs of wood before magazines then some osb and more magazines. one with the hollow point plugged penetrated 8 inches with a 1 to 2 inch expanded hole. only fragments found. one with an open hollow point penetrated the same with slightly more wound channel. i sent three more with points closed and grouped all five in .5 hole. and yes i changes magazines so i could see different performance. all bullets expanded and only fragments found. would i use bergers on game. yes unless i experince multiple failures on game all bullets expanded exactly how advertised. superb accuracy with a load i havent even tried to fine tune with seating dept and diff powders. i believe on a whitetail or any game there would be more penetration and much larger wound channel. just my .02 cents

 

[Broz]

so i shot my wifes browing xbolt 7mm08 into a box with osb and magazines at 75 yards. about 2inchs of wood before magazines then some osb and more magazines. one with the hollow point plugged penetrated 8 inches with a 1 to 2 inch expanded hole. only fragments found. one with an open hollow point penetrated the same with slightly more wound channel. i sent three more with points closed and grouped all five in .5 hole. and yes i changes magazines so i could see different performance. all bullets expanded and only fragments found. would i use bergers on game. yes unless i experince multiple failures on game all bullets expanded exactly how advertised. superb accuracy with a load i havent even tried to fine tune with seating dept and diff powders. i believe on a whitetail or any game there would be more penetration and much larger wound channel. just my .02 cents

Good test and fine report.!! This is good proof for all. 8" of penetration from a 7-08 in that hard of material is pretty good in my book.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[jkupper]

Wow, I didn't see this thread until today. Interesting read through and through.

Dad and I just started shooting the Berger, I think 168 gr. hunting VLD, in our 30-06 of use out to 400 yards. We had an interesting result already. Dad shot a muley at 75 yards this year, and I watched the bullet hit and figured the deer was dead, high lung shot. It ran over the hill, and we walked to the edge of the hill expecting to find it dead. To our surprise it was walking up the hill on the other side about 150 yards away. Dad shot again and missed. The deer got away from us, but was obviously hurt. I caught up to it about a half mile away bedded down. I shot it and killed it there. No blood trail leading to the deer, but it is very open country around here so it wasn't too tough to find. Sure enough, dad's bullet hit a little high, but when I was gutting the deer out it had pierced both lungs. There was a 30 caliber hole in and out. We couldn't explain the results. After reading this I will be interested to see how Eric's test results turn out, and I will go through and check each bullet with a staple before loading to be on the safe side until then. The Berger's are shooting well out of both my 7mmRM and 30-06, so I definitely plan to keep using them in both. Glad that Eric is standing behind his products and trying to find a reason.

Joe

 

[Surgikill]

I think I know the reason why, I use the 6.8 spc and am active on the 68 forums and one member has posted results about his bergers. Apparently the copper jacket is extremely thick at the front of the bullet causing it to yaw on impact and exit rear end first, or not way and just keep trudging. Here is the thread if you would like to read it in its entirety.

Scroll down to post #5

6.8 caribou

 

[WildRose]

I think I know the reason why, I use the 6.8 spc and am active on the 68 forums and one member has posted results about his bergers. Apparently the copper jacket is extremely thick at the front of the bullet causing it to yaw on impact and exit rear end first, or not way and just keep trudging. Here is the thread if you would like to read it in its entirety.

Scroll down to post #5

6.8 caribou

The 6.8spc is a completely different animal from the rifles most of us are shooting here. The velocities are so low at the muzzle compared to what we are shooting it's really a completely apples to anvils comparison.

That doesn't totally invalidate someone's results but it is pretty much like comparing a riding mower to a corvette.

 

[bigngreen]

I think I know the reason why, I use the 6.8 spc and am active on the 68 forums and one member has posted results about his bergers. Apparently the copper jacket is extremely thick at the front of the bullet causing it to yaw on impact and exit rear end first, or not way and just keep trudging. Here is the thread if you would like to read it in its entirety.

Scroll down to post #5

6.8 caribou

Very interesting, I've shot thousands of that bullet from 270's and 270 WSM and never seen anything like that. From my shooting the 140 from our rifles I don't like putting them on the shoulder because they open very well, shooting behind the shoulder and it blows the lungs to shreds and you find little copper parts and the base copper cup with lead in it on the of side. I would guess that someone has to slow a twist rate to keep the bullets stable at the velocity a 6.8 would launch it.

 

[Surgikill]

The 6.8spc is a completely different animal from the rifles most of us are shooting here. The velocities are so low at the muzzle compared to what we are shooting it's really a completely apples to anvils comparison.

That doesn't totally invalidate someone's results but it is pretty much like comparing a riding mower to a corvette.

Velocity is 2400-2500 and the bullet is made for a 270 win. not a 6.8. Point is manufacturing processes are probably identical and I guarantee that if you cut your bullet lengthwise you will find that the jacket is thick at the nose. Those 6.8 bullets still destroy everything, they just act weird.

 

[WildRose]

Velocity is 2400-2500 and the bullet is made for a 270 win. not a 6.8. Point is manufacturing processes are probably identical and I guarantee that if you cut your bullet lengthwise you will find that the jacket is thick at the nose. Those 6.8 bullets still destroy everything, they just act weird.

Tell ya what. Get out your handy dandy ballistics calculator and compare energies all the way out to 1,000yds between the 6.8 and 270 at hundred yard intervals and get back with us. The difference in the fps makes a HUGE difference on terminal ballistics between the two due to the much higher energy on impact.

No bullet acts the same at all velocities and energies.

 

[bigngreen]

Here is a 140 Berger milled so as to see the jacket thickness next to a 140 Berger that was recovered on the of side of a cow elk. I've shot a lot of game with that bullet and my buddy has shot quite a few with them from a 270 win, I've never seen one not opened or a hint of it tumbling. Even the ones we find in the 1000 and 1450 yard berms are opened very well!!! Should add launch velocity is 3340fps in the WSM and 3035 fps from the 270 win.