Non-recovered Elk - my fault or bullet failure or both?

[jrham55]

I need some group thought/opinion. Shot an elk in CO this week and failed to recover the animal. Using a 7mm Sherman Short with 175gr Berger Hunter elite hunters @ 2925fps. Long story short, I got to 375 yards on a cow elk that was uphill at 17 degrees. Had plenty of time to run my kestrel to get shooting solution, (including inclination) dialed dope and got prone.. Placed crosshairs even with the center of front leg, half way on the thickness of the animal and let it rip. Watched the bullet hit the elk, and she ran like she was fatally hit. 99.9% sure I hit exactly where I was aiming (or at least within 3 inches). Followed blood for about 150 yards and lost blood trail. Came back the 2nd day and searched with no luck. Majorly bummed.

Replayed the situation in my head a million times and have a few possible reasons for the non recovered animal and wanted some group opinion.

1) 100% my fault with shot placement. I should have aimed lower (and slightly further back) to account for the bullet traveling in an upward direction though the body. Basically, i might have hit the top of the front side lung, went under the spine, and over the top of the backside lung.
2) 100% bullet failure. Bullet hit major shoulder bone structure and failed to penetrate into the vitals. Or bullet pin holed through without expanding or causing sufficient damage.
3) some combination of #1 and #2 - while shot placement wasn't ideal, a better bullet would have put the animal down, even with that hold.


Thoughts?

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Sorry for this...heartbreaking.

Cosign of 17 deg is .95....95 X 375 yds = 356 actual straight line range. That's about a four inch difference in drop based on my 7mm offerings data close to your velocities (at that range they are similar). Four inches too high, maybe hit no mans land above the lungs. Curious what your calculator gave you for a solution?

I would be hesitant to call it bullet failure, if it hits vitals, Berger is going to do it's job. I think a fragmenting Berger would be the exact bullet for a shot like that. A mono/bonded would punch even easier without hitting vitals.

My first deer ever was not recovered. Saw it jump in the scope, no dice... hurts to the core...

 

[bsnyder]

I've never had a Berger not blow up both shoulders. Especially at where you impact speeds would have been. My follow up questions are 1, how did you look for the elk when you lost blood? What did you do day 2 when you were searching? Was it a grid search did you look for crows circling?
I normally don't even respond to these but while reading it to the wife she had questions and stated the deer she killed with a 7 stw at inside 100 yards with a Berger 168 through both shoulders and it still exited and destroyed both. So impact speeds would have been about your muzzle. If the bullet penciled did you see an exit? Dust fly? Hair? What did you see at the impact when you walked over there?

 

[Rick Richard]

I "feel" for you since I did the same thing this year in new Mexico on a 365" bull. Hit him in the front shoulder with a quartering to me shot at a tad over 200 yards shooting a 180 Berger Elite. Best we could think is the bullet exploded and never penetrated the vitals. We searched for a combination of 2 1/2 days. 300 WSM, 180 Berger with a velocity of 3048 fps….go figure.

 

[waspocrew]

Without being there to witness the shot, it will all just be speculation. The situation definitely isn't fun, but it happens.

 

[jrham55]

Sorry for this...heartbreaking.

Cosign of 17 deg is .95....95 X 375 yds = 356 actual straight line range. That's about a four inch difference in drop based on my 7mm offerings data close to your velocities (at that range they are similar). Four inches too high, maybe hit no mans land above the lungs. Curious what your calculator gave you for a solution?

I would be hesitant to call it bullet failure, if it hits vitals, Berger is going to do it's job. I think a fragmenting Berger would be the exact bullet for a shot like that. A mono/bonded would punch even easier without hitting vitals.

My first deer ever was not recovered. Saw it jump in the scope, no dice... hurts to the core...

I actually adjusted my dope for the angle. If I recall, it took 0.2mils off my dope due to the angle. I use applied ballistics in my kestrel for dope. I had my kestrel with me, so I fulled dialed for the shot before shooting.

 

[jrham55]

I've never had a Berger not blow up both shoulders. Especially at where you impact speeds would have been. My follow up questions are 1, how did you look for the elk when you lost blood? What did you do day 2 when you were searching? Was it a grid search did you look for crows circling?
I normally don't even respond to these but while reading it to the wife she had questions and stated the deer she killed with a 7 stw at inside 100 yards with a Berger 168 through both shoulders and it still exited and destroyed both. So impact speeds would have been about your muzzle. If the bullet penciled did you see an exit? Dust fly? Hair? What did you see at the impact when you walked over there?

Shooting prone, I was able to watch the bullet hit the animal. She ran straight down hill like crazy, I actually for a spit second thought she was rolling down the hill. Cow was with a larger herd that moved into the adjacent dark timber and then went straight uphill through the dark timber. I followed blood in the dark timber and lost blood about 1/2 way up this hill. Went to top and didn't find any blood on top. On day #2, I followed the herds tracks from the top of the hill. About 1/2 mile away I found blood again, but lost blood after another 1/2 mile when the snow ran out. So I tracked the animal for roughly 1 mile from where she was shot.

 

[Greta06]

It hurts for sure, at least it wasn't a big bull like what happened to Rick. I switched to copper bullets more than 10 years ago and never looked back. I wouldn't ever consider using anything else, i can take any shot i want and not worry about not getting full penetration. I'm also not taking shots beyond 500 yards, that might change my bullet choice if i was shooting critters way out there.

 

[jrham55]

I "feel" for you since I did the same thing this year in new Mexico on a 365" bull. Hit him in the front shoulder with a quartering to me shot at a tad over 200 yards shooting a 180 Berger Elite. Best we could think is the bullet exploded and never penetrated the vitals. We searched for a combination of 2 1/2 days. 300 WSM, 180 Berger with a velocity of 3048 fps….go figure.

Wow…very very similar sounding story. Not recovering any animal sucks, but not being able to recover that class of a bull was devastating for sure.

 

[Troutslayer2]

hard sayin not knowing but I've seen them go incredibly far with fatal wounds. They have a will to live. I wouldn't stop looking on day one if I thought I had made a fatal shot.

 

[Rick Richard]

It hurts for sure, at least it wasn't a big bull like what happened to Rick. I switched to copper bullets more than 10 years ago and never looked back. I wouldn't ever consider using anything else, i can take any shot i want and not worry about not getting full penetration. I'm also not taking shots beyond 500 yards, that might change my bullet choice if i was shooting critters way out there.

I've had great success with Hammers on deer and antelope. Next year it will be my choice for elk.

 

[243winxb]

30 caliber, my choice. 300 win mag or Weatherby 300 mag. Sierra bullets.

https://bergerbullets.com/ballistics-calculator/Low hit?

 

[jrham55]

It hurts for sure, at least it wasn't a big bull like what happened to Rick. I switched to copper bullets more than 10 years ago and never looked back. I wouldn't ever consider using anything else, i can take any shot i want and not worry about not getting full penetration. I'm also not taking shots beyond 500 yards, that might change my bullet choice if i was shooting critters way out there.

I think I'm going this route too. I'm not putting 100% of the blame on the bullet, but something just wasn't right. I was prone at 375 yards, solid as a rock. I went the Berger route, because that is what I shoot in my PRS long range shooting competitions and they shoot good at long distance. The longer version of this story is I spotted this heard at 800 yards away. And I make 800 yard shots all the time at my competition matches, so I decided to go for it. But with only a backpack and small rear bag with me, my wobble zone was probably 18" or more. So I decided against pulling the trigger. By the time I could get back in view of the heard due to the terrain, I was 375 away.

So like you, my shots will likely be within 500/600 yards as well. I tried to get stable at 800 yards, but without a bipod and rear sandbag, I don't see that distance happening in my future.

 

[pawater]

I got my eyes opened last year..... I historically killed all of my elk with 230 berger Hybrid targets in the 2950-3120 range with the 3120 being on a big bull at 820 yards. Last year I shot a big cow elk at about 80- 100 yds with a berger 215 at 2990. The cow was on the move and I aimed slightly forward to compensate. I hit her square in the shoulder. She spun and ran like she wasn't hit. There was no sign of a hit except for a little hair. We were in sage brush and I lost sight of her immediately. I found her about 100 yds away. She had layed down like she bedded. I hit her square in the shoulder and barely made it to the near side lung.
I typically aim for tight in the crease and have had very good luck.
I do check all of my tips on my hunting rounds. I still believe the 215s work great. I will just avoid heavy mass hits at short range. It's hard to have both when you want reliable expansion at distance.
That being said.....maybe a penetration issue.