My thoughts on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types.

[FEENIX]

I am only human, I do have my biases, in food, drink, clothes, cars, firearms and so on....but I am always open minded and ready to learn something new every day

Bias is definitely natural. I certainly have my own biases as well. I still try keep an open mind nonetheless with certain things. Bias is not always permanent.

We all do, but you will never hear me say Purity is better than Premium Standard; however, I will share my personal preference. LOL!

 

[FEENIX]

I did see back around September/October their main bullet guy had some major issues with the law. I don't want to get into here. You can find the charges online. Pretty serious though, and shocking. Not sure if that's a reason for not being able to get a hold of them or not though.

The SHOT show was in Jan 18-21, but a couple of companies I have been trying to get ahold of still has their auto-replies about their attendance at the show; I am not sure if it is the same for them well.

 

[IHFarmer07]

The SHOT show was in Jan 18-21, but a couple of companies I have been trying to get ahold of still has their auto-replies about their attendance at the show; I am not sure if it is the same for them well.

I had called this past Friday and normally the phone goes a voice mail and you could leave a message but this time it got that far and then said mail box full. I've got George's cell phone number but I don't like doing that when they have a business number. I know George is a medical physician too.

 

[FEENIX]

I had called this past Friday and normally the phone goes a voice mail and you could leave a message but this time it got that far and then said mail box full. I've got George's cell phone number but I don't like doing that when they have a business number. I know George is a medical physician too.

Yeah, I know the feeling; most of my fishing buddies are docs.

 

[Canhunter35]

No, I do not currently have a website, but I do plan on having one eventually. I'm also going to start working on writing a book and it will have a section that discusses and shows all the differences in bullets, their construction, jacket thicknesses, etc and how all that translates into terminal ballistics and terminal behavior.

It'll mainly focus on bullets, terminal ballistics, and many of the factors and variables involved. It'll also discuss many of the misconceptions and misinformation out there surrounding terminal ballistics and bullet for hunting.

I have most of it prewritten already. It'll just be a matter of putting it all together with pictures and make it all flow together properly.

I wrote fiction at one time and published short stories, if u get a book together and want a proof reader, pm me

 

[Petey308]

I wrote fiction at one time and published short stories, if u get a book together and want a proof reader, pm me

I appreciate that. I just finished an 18 page write-up recently and so far it's the first literary work I've submitted for copyright. The ball is rolling lol.

 

[Pdvdh]

Here's a great option and alternative to solid copper varieties, yet is still lead free. It features a compressed metal powder core with a swaged copper jacket. The core begins coming apart after about 2" of penetration and absolutely shreds vital organs. I've used them quite a bit with excellent results. I truly believe this is the best answer for a lead-free hunting bullet.

This is a 200gr Terminal Shock from Dynamic Research Technologies.

Have you placed one of those 200gr bullets in muscle yet? If so, is there any remaining edible meat?
From your description, the bullet sounds exceptionally explosive/destructive in tissue.

 

[Petey308]

Have you placed one of those 200gr bullets in muscle yet? If so, is there any remaining edible meat?
From your description, the bullet sounds exceptionally explosive/destructive in tissue.

Yes I have. I prefer high shoulder shots. They make it through the muscle quite well before opening up and the core material seems to affect organ tissues a lot more than muscle.

They're a go-to bullet for me if I need a lead-free option, but they're not a bullet I use very often at all. They're on the expensive side and where I hunt the most, I have better options that perform very well and with less cost.

 

[WildRose]

Velocity and energy are definitely related. How much energy there is to potentially transfer is dependent upon the velocity and mass of the bullet.

Yes, the size of the frontal area, as well as the pressure put on the bullet and animal, and this how the bullet reacts and deforms will determine how much or how little energy is transferred and how much of a shockwave is produced.

A smaller caliber, longer, more secant bullet with a small meplat, and that is constructed in a way that resists expansion will not produce much of a shockwave, if at all, compared to a larger caliber, softer constructed, and with a wide meplat bullet.

How much hydrostatic shock is produced is just as much tied to the construction and terminal behavior of the bullet as hydraulic shock. Hydrostatic does require the bullet to at least impact at supersonic speeds though, whereas hydraulic shock can still occur at lower speeds.

Velocity and energy are definitely related. How much energy there is to potentially transfer is dependent upon the velocity and mass of the bullet.

Yes, the size of the frontal area, as well as the pressure put on the bullet and animal, and this how the bullet reacts and deforms will determine how much or how little energy is transferred and how much of a shockwave is produced.

A smaller caliber, longer, more secant bullet with a small meplat, and that is constructed in a way that resists expansion will not produce much of a shockwave, if at all, compared to a larger caliber, softer constructed, and with a wide meplat bullet.

How much hydrostatic shock is produced is just as much tied to the construction and terminal behavior of the bullet as hydraulic shock. Hydrostatic does require the bullet to at least impact at supersonic speeds though, whereas hydraulic shock can still occur at lower speeds.

I get all that Pete. The point is you can't simply quote a given velocity as a standard not knowing the other factors involved. Total energy on Impact however is a good rule of thumb but again, is reliant on expansion because far more energy is imparted to the tissues of the body with a wider frontal surface vs smaller.

I learned this young first hand shooting prairie dogs using various rounds and both expanding and non expanding bullets.

Even something as fragile as a PD didn't "pop" like a water balloon consistently when shot with solids or bullets that only minimally expanded vs even slower rounds that did expand well.

This is a major reason why FMJ's are banned for taking game in many states.

 

[Petey308]

I get all that Pete. The point is you can't simply quote a given velocity as a standard not knowing the other factors involved. Total energy on Impact however is a good rule of thumb but again, is reliant on expansion because far more energy is imparted to the tissues of the body with a wider frontal surface vs smaller.

I learned this young first hand shooting prairie dogs using various rounds and both expanding and non expanding bullets.

Even something as fragile as a PD didn't "pop" like a water balloon consistently when shot with solids or bullets that only minimally expanded vs even slower rounds that did expand well.

This is a major reason why FMJ's are banned for taking game in many states.

I feel like we're saying the same things, yes? I didn't quote a specific velocity because it does depend on other things. When I talk about minimum and maximum impact velocities, it's more of a rule of thumb and it's been based on the type of bullet and its construction/composition as well as other variables, and how well or not it'll ultimately produce adequate expansion and penetration, not so much whether it'll produce hydrostatic shock. Hydrostatic shock is a great bonus to have and impart, but it's not something I absolutely strive to have. Ultimately, I want to focus on producing sufficient trauma and blood loss. Having the ability to drop the animal in its tracks is great and something I definitely want, but it needs to bleed out or succumb to asphyxiation before it can recover.

 

[WildRose]

I feel like we're saying the same things, yes? I didn't quote a specific velocity because it does depend on other things. When I talk about minimum and maximum impact velocities, it's more of a rule of thumb and it's been based on the type of bullet and its construction/composition as well as other variables, and how well or not it'll ultimately produce adequate expansion and penetration, not so much whether it'll produce hydrostatic shock. Hydrostatic shock is a great bonus to have and impart, but it's not something I absolutely strive to have. Ultimately, I want to focus on producing sufficient trauma and blood loss. Having the ability to drop the animal in its tracks is great and something I definitely want, but it needs to bleed out or succumb to asphyxiation before it can recover.

We are, you just got off into the weeds when that question was asked so I was trying to pull you back on track.

 

[Petey308]

We are, you just got off into the weeds when that question was asked so I was trying to pull you back on track.

I didn't realize that. My apologies. Most threads tend to do that though, especially when certain bullets or methods get brought up

 

[WildRose]

Ultimately, I want to focus on producing sufficient trauma and blood loss. Having the ability to drop the animal in its tracks is great and something I definitely want, but it needs to bleed out or succumb to asphyxiation before it can recover.

One thing I don't see discussed enough is the literal explosion of organs and blood vessels by that shockwave. A term I refer to as "hyperstatic shock" because "hydraulic shock" doesn't really address it completely.

I've opened up thousands of hogs and game animals it with a good expanding bullet at 300yds or less where impact energy is very high for most center fire rounds used today and found nothing left intact at all inside the chest cavity with a consistency of lumpy gelatin.

I've even seen livers ruptured which are of course not even in the chest cavity from this massive overpressure which is of course followed by an instant vacuum in the case of a round passing through completely.

The fluids in those organs and vessels that are not struck by the projectile of pieces of same are literally exploding because of that fluid being forceded through them by the shockwave.

You do not see this at all, at least I haven't with low velocity impacts bet hat from the older and slower big bores like the 444 and 45/70 or even the big African Magnums that dominated earlier in the last century and century before. Those rounds can impart massive amounts of energy on the target at the ranges they are typically shot but lack the velocity to create the same sort of wave action.

 

[FEENIX]

I didn't realize that. My apologies. Most threads tend to do that though, especially when certain bullets or methods get brought up

Cheers, it's that time.