Model 700 extraction issue

[Washam71418]

First off - great forum lots of knowledge here.

Here's my issue- Remington 700 long range, purchased new. Never fired Norma Brass FL resized, cycles fine loaded and unloaded before first firing. First firing occurs, no stiffness in bolt lift but the cases are hard to extract (some harder than others). I do not have to hit the bolt handle or use a cleaning rod, I just have to pull hard on the handle. There are no pressure signs visible. Once fired brass is hard to chamber, bolt hard to close etc. same after FL resize again. Brass could stand to be trimmed but is not to long per case specs. I have blacked the neck and shoulder with a sharpie and really don't see any indications in that area. The only thing I see at all are a few slight marks that are so shallow I would hesitate to call them scratches on the OD of the case body. These are loacated on the upper half of the body. They are longitudinal.

Some of my research has pointed toward some sort of imperfection in the chamber that needs to be removed. If this is true why are the once fire cases hard to chamber even after they have been resized?

Anybody run into this before? Thoughts?

 

[dok7mm]

Could be a couple of things. Like you said, a poor finish in chamber, excessive pressure or most likely, your resizing die is not set correctly. Do you have the tools to check new case dimensions vs fired brass vs your resized brass?

 

[Washam71418]

Could be a couple of things. Like you said, a poor finish in chamber, excessive pressure or most likely, your resizing die is not set correctly. Do you have the tools to check new case dimensions vs fired brass vs your resized brass?

 

[Washam71418]

I have calipers. I am off at work now so I can't supply dimensions or make any more measurements right now. I do remember the checks I did make didn't show anything that raised a flag with me. I doubt excess pressure because I had the same results at several different powder charges with no other signs that point toward pressure.

 

[Edd]

...... Thoughts?

I think you have two unrelated issues.

I think the hard chambering of resized fired brass is caused from the resize die adjustment. When you resize a fired case the first thing that happens is you squeeze the diameter smaller. This causes the case to grow in length. Then, if you don't push the shoulder back enough the case is longer than the chamber and the bolt will be hard to close.

The hard extraction is caused by the lack of a primary extraction cam. When you lift the bolt handle, around the top half of the handle travel, the front of the bolt handle should contact the rear of the receiver and force the bolt rearward far enough to unseat the case from the chamber.

 

[antelopedundee]

Sounds like maybe a slight bulge somewhere in the body part of the chamber. Mike a fired and unfired case to check.

 

[antelopedundee]

I think you have two unrelated issues.

I think the hard chambering of resized fired brass is caused from the resize die adjustment. When you resize a fired case the first thing that happens is you squeeze the diameter smaller. This causes the case to grow in length. Then, if you don't push the shoulder back enough the case is longer than the chamber and the bolt will be hard to close.

The hard extraction is caused by the lack of a primary extraction cam. When you lift the bolt handle, around the top half of the handle travel, the front of the bolt handle should contact the rear of the receiver and force the bolt rearward far enough to unseat the case from the chamber.

I think he is saying that the fired case is hard to re-chamber without sizing. If a fired case comes out of a chamber then it should go back in even without resizing.

 

[Washam71418]

I think he is saying that the fired case is hard to re-chamber without sizing. If a fired case comes out of a chamber then it should go back in even without resizing.

Yes, it is hard to chamber after being fired once. It doesn't matter if it has been resized or not.

I think the hard chambering of resized fired brass is caused from the resize die adjustment.

I set the die just like the instructions say. That was my first thought, checked that first. That's what led me to try and chamber a fired case that hadn't been resized. Every time I think I'm onto something, I discover something else that kinda disproves what I thought my problem was.....

 

[Washam71418]

Sounds like maybe a slight bulge somewhere in the body part of the chamber. Mike a fired and unfired case to check.

Wouldn't a bulge be taken care of by the resizing die?

Don't get me wrong here guys, I appreciate all the feedback. It's just not adding up to me. I seem to be able to shoot holes in every idea except maybe the chamber polishing.

 

[antelopedundee]

What caliber? See the same issue with factory ammo? A chamber cast might give you an answer.

 

[antelopedundee]

Wouldn't a bulge be taken care of by the resizing die?

Don't get me wrong here guys, I appreciate all the feedback. It's just not adding up to me. I seem to be able to shoot holes in every idea except maybe the chamber polishing.

Possibly if it was a minimum spec die. You could look at the chamber finish with a borescope?

 

[Mike 338]

Well, I had a guy build me a 338 Norma Magnum from a 338 Win Mag. He opened up the bolt and chambered the barrel. Mind you, at the time, there was only one brass manufacturer (Norma). Under what was to be considered normal loads, I couldn't extract anything. It was terrible. I had to reduce the loads so much that my magnum was running like a 30-30, just to get a case out without a cleaning rod from the business end. I had another guy check out the chamber and he said it was perfect, so... what was the problem? I never found out. Norma brass is notoriously soft. Was that the problem? Well, since nobody else made brass for it at the time, I didn't know. Another thing is the die. Some dies don't size at all around the web. Extraction is spotty. At the time, I didn't know that either so I didn't measure for it. You gott'a check the measurements of the FL die. Dang... I just found a site from a gunsmith that detailed it but can't remember who he is. Anyway... you gun may or may not be perfect. Lapua brass is crazy good. Use that if you can. If you can't, get another brand and try it before you scrap the gun. Also, don't hesitate to try another FL die. Don't set it up for accuracy. Just follow the instructions that come with it and see if it helps. Yes, trim the cases to the recommended range of acceptable length. Cramming a size 11 foot into a size 9 shoe is just dumb. I'd check those pronto (brass make and die) before I even developed an opinion.

Personally, I haven't given up on the 338 Norma. I got another barrel and bolt for the origional gun and chambered it in 300 WM. To busy to get it going though. I have a boat load of build parts ready to go for the 338 Norma Mag but I'm waiting for Lapua to actually deliver on their big talk of providing a line of brass for this amazing caliber. Lapua USA say's 2nd quarter of 2019. That's lame. Crap, I could peddle one of those swan novelty boats across the Atlantic faster than that but I digress. BTW, Graf's has Peterson brass a dude can buy today. For you 338 fans, that may well be the ticket.

Peterson brass... are they awesome or just another pretender. Seriously... what brass maker doesn't clam "match grade". Heck... I've seen "match grade" peeing contests. Personally... I would love to see an American manufacturer stand a North Euro maker on it's ear but from where I sit... those N. Euro dudes staff their facilities with dudes that get it and here... not so much. Luckily... or not so lucky... with all the Euro migration infestation... the build quality will crap out to American standards very soon. Hey... happy days. America gets back into the fight because North Europe has been "stanked up".

Oh... and not one good gun has been produced.

 

[Washam71418]

What caliber? See the same issue with factory ammo? A chamber cast might give you an answer.

300 RUM, no factory ammo has been fired thru it.

 

[bigedp51]

Chambers and dies vary in size, you need to measure the case body at three points after firing and full length resizing.

Note on a semi-auto the resized case should be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired diameter. This allows the case to spring back from the chamber walls and extract reliably.

Below a example of Forster .308 dies.

Your problem could be as simple as a skinny chamber and a fat die that does not reduce case diameter enough.