Long Range Computer Games

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by No Fear in Accuracy, Mar 30, 2002.

  1. No Fear in Accuracy

    No Fear in Accuracy Well-Known Member

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    I'm a 3D Artist/Modeler for the game industries. It would be nice to develop Long Range Computer Game so we can improve our skills with the elevation and the windage, including the temperature, barometer, wind and so on... I just thought it would be fun shooting LR game during the winter time.
    I happened to explore and found the website where you can play with the elevation and windage but it is very simple game. I've seen another game for snipers using Mil-Dot to measure the distance. Are there more games like that?
    http://users.rcn.com/rvdi/vbr/benchrest2.html

    -Denny
    300 Tomahawkallthewaay
     
  2. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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  3. No Fear in Accuracy

    No Fear in Accuracy Well-Known Member

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    Monte

    Yes, that is the one I'm talking about.
    **************************************
    longrangehunter
    That would be awesome if you set up your own rifle equipment and know your rifle well.

    -Denny
     
  4. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Fellows

    There's no substatute for actual fire practice in different weather temperatures, at various elevation degrees and at different yardages with YOUR own rifle.

    Just stay with your one favorite load and practice every chance you get.

    Oh yes, several computer drop charts for the elevation and temp. changes will be needed also.

    Be sure and have your spotter with you too.

    Later
    Darryl
     
  5. longrangehunter

    longrangehunter Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Darryl we know that.
     
  6. longrangehunter

    longrangehunter Well-Known Member

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    Instead of a game how about a program for field use with all the features everybody wants, but no program seems to provide. It would be great to have a program that combines the specifications of my rifle, real world performance data from my rifle, and weather data in the algorithms to come up with it's estimations. Of course, the output should be simple like hold-over and come-ups. That should keep you busy. [​IMG]
     
  7. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Hello

    There was only one reason I mentioned the "actual fire" as the most important segment of knowing the charteristics of your load and in your rifle.

    I have NEVER seen a program (for the sportsman) yet, that will accuratly (100%) give ALL information needed to place the bullet from point A to point B.

    I think it's because we are not in a controlled situation where everything can be programed for each one of us, our rifles, on THAT day, and account for ALL conditions.

    Warren has come close but, even he will admit, changes occur before the trigger is pulled in many cases. I think he is working on a very comprehensive program now for the sportsman? We shall wait and see what he comes up with.

    Darryl
     
  8. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Darryl,

    I think what is being looked for is something that can be educational for the shooter, and fun at the same time. Now while I would love to be out pulling the trigger every chance I get, the reality of my situation is that there are many days that I'm at work at the butt crack of dawn, and home around dark. Not much shooting opportunity there. So something that gives a reasonable simulation of the conditions, is for me at least, valuable in that I can hone my skills a little while at the 'puter in the morning waiting to leave, or at home after supper. Not a perfect simulation, by any means, but for me the simulation at the shooterready site is handy (I've got one on order, as I've played the demo til I was blue in the face!) because I still use a mil-dot reticle in some of my scopes (no $3000 Russian optics here, and the Bushy 800 doesn't work under all conditions, good as it is) and I for one need a lot of practice still on actually doing the calculations to use the reticle properly.

    YMMV,

    Monte
     
  9. longrangehunter

    longrangehunter Well-Known Member

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    Darryl,
    That's more or less what I was talking about. The current generation of programs could be a lot better.

    The problem is they are all theory. If the program estimates the drop at a certain range to be XX, but the actual drop is XX +5 inches the only way to adjust the program is by manipulating the numbers. You may make an educated guess and decide to adjust the BC, but do you really know that the BC is off?

    On modern automobiles the computer has a program with various tables that controls the function of the engine. Mostly the dwell of the fuel injectors. However, they also have sensors, most importantly an O2 sensor that feeds data back to the computer. The computer makes real-time adjustments AND also updates the tables. After a period of time the engine runs better because the program has *learned* and the tables are more accurate.

    On the AC-130 basically the same concept of a learning computer is used. Obviously, these calculation are way more complex then what we need being that the aircraft is moving in "3D." To tie this into what you said above about needing to actually fire the rifle even the AC-130 crew will shoot some last minute practice rounds to adjust the system before doing circles above Al Qaeda.

    Anyway, to have real world performance data for this next generation of programs obviously you are going to have to shoot at different ranges and in different conditions and make accurate observations and/or measurements.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  10. No Fear in Accuracy

    No Fear in Accuracy Well-Known Member

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    Even military soliders and pilots train using "sort of" real-life simulation. Without the heavy training/practising, they cannot do their job well. The game will help LR hunters improve their knowledge and understanding the bullet trajectory however it will never replace the real thing, only supplement the shooting experience.

    The race car driver told the reporter that his son who became 16 years old and he drives really good because he played car games often. I'm not sure if it will work for most of you.

    -Denny
     
  11. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Hello

    I agree, if theres a simulation that can help a shooter understand his equipment and the ballistics better, then it is worth while.
    This is especially true when the person has limited time to actual fire and practice with his rifle.

    Probably what I should have said was, be aware that the computer program/game will probably not be the same as when you go out that day and actual fire YOUR rifle and load.
    It may be close but, this is where the spotter comes into play many times.

    We all have to practice as much as possible. Any way we can do that will help us understand what is happening between point A and point B to the bullet.

    I sort of play a game with the Oehler ballistics program. It will run three bullets at the same time against each other on a graph out to 2750 yards.
    I like to put the same bullet and velocity information in the 3 different entry points and then change 2 of the 3 entries in the degrees, temperature or elevation catagories and watch how the graph changes each one, out to 2750 yards.

    You can swith information on any of the 3 and it will pick it up and make corrections each time. I like to watch the corrections on the graph.

    I then go out and try to apply actual fire to what I programed for that day and temperature and see which chart matches the actual flight of the bullet.

    As mentioned in another post, Theres no substitute for actual fire, if you can do it from time to time.
    The smell of burning gun powder always makes me horney anyway. I like to pull the trigger as much as possible at my age.

    Later
    Darryl

    A thought for the day;
    If practice makes perfect and Nobody's perfect, that must mean nobody practices?