Load work up for Double Rifle????

[CUTTER1]

Probably not the right place to ask but I'm struggling to work up loads that are well regulated for 2 of my dad double rifles. He was a maticulous record keeper but the one thing I can't find is the loads for his 3 double rifles or his 458 pre64 custom! Would love to take the 470NE or the 450/400 3.25 NE. I have dies for each and both old and some new brass for each and old Barns bullets that he used that are in amazing condition! Also have picked up some Hornady solids and soft points for each! The few loaded rounds for each both look like 4831 which makes some sense as it was widely available in 20# drums years ago (a surplus powder I think), but don't know how it will compare to new H4831. I only had a few loads of each and shot 4 from each gun and they were amazingly accurate!
The value of 50+ yo double rifles have gone thru the roof & for sentimental reasons, I don't want to screw up. I have now came to grips with going to Africa after 37 yrs (my best friend was killed with his PH, tracker and skinner on a hunt I was supposed to go on). So I'm currently planning at least 2 Safaries in the next 3 yr or so with a goal of a Sable and a Cape Buffalo with one of my dads doubles!

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[jjmp]

Hi Cutter1, tell us what state you live in and if you have manuals to cover the Cartridges you want to reload for,hopefully your Father had some that were saved ,very happy that your going to Africa hunting ,& Very Sorry for the loss of your Friends Life & the Others also !!!. Are you gonna load for the 458 w/mag Also , thks !,Cheers!!!.

 

[codyadams]

I have loaded with h4831 that was old (10+ years), and found it to be very similar to new h4831. I would just treat it like you were switching lots of powder, as long as the charge weights are not much over what standard reloading data says for those cartridges. If anything, I have noticed a couple of powders that were 30+ years old to build pressure a little sooner than new production powders. Not sure if it gets more volatile over time or what, but a couple of the older powders I have used (mostly pistol powders) just seem to do that.

 

[Greyfox]

Years ago I did a lot of work with the double express rifles. My go-to for the dangerous critters was a H&H 450 Nitro Express(500-450). Ammo was no longer available for the rifle. Fortunately I could neck down 470 cases to 458. I found the key to regulating the load to the rifle was to duplicate the original velocity and most importantly, shape/ogive of the original bullets, generally Kynock. After struggling with the usual contemporary 458 billets, I found that the Woodleigh 480gr bullets were an exact match for the original Kynocks and would regulate to the original spec. For powder I got best results with IMR3031(76gr) to generate the original velocity spec of 2150FPS. Because the cases are so long in order to accommodate the original Cordite used in the day, I would use 2gr of Kaypoc filler to keep the power against the primer. Modern powders take up less space. The 50 yard shots, 2 from each barrel matched the H&H spec of 1.5" for 4 shots at 50 yards to exact POA. This basic approach worked well with the 400 to 470 caliber express cartridges. I used this hand-loads to take this cat and my H&H at 22 paces Also, a slug(follow-up) that entered the front of his chest and was recovered from the hide under his hind quarter.
Added comment: Some asked about the insert in the photo of the Lion. This photo is from William Buckley's Book, "Big Game Hunting in Central Africa". My rifle was originally purchased by Buckley in 1904, and is shown in the insert along with a lion he shot with it. I thought it ironic that I shot my lion in 1994, 90 years later with his rifle.

 

[J E Custom]

Look for a powder that is 98+% to slightly compressed And that has a max pressure of 40,000 PSI (The old doubles were relatively low pressure and were normally less than 40,000 psi)

H 4831 is a good choice for the big bores like the 470 and will be very liner when loading. 400 to 500 grain round nose bullets are recommended and even some of the spritzers.

Use the primary barrel to work up the best load and then shoot the secondary barrel to locate the POI for it. Very few will be regulated to hit the same place but at some distance they will converge. (Nice to know where). the point of doing it this way is to have the sites set for the first shot and the follow up shot will be close no matter the distance.

Also don't over compress the loads because they will swell and might not chamber in a pinch. I recommend before doing a dangerous game hunt that you try every round in the chamber to cull any that won't chamber with ease.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Double BC]

If you pm me your email I will send you load info for both. I highly recommend you get the book " shooting the British double rifle "

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0949749400/?tag=lrhmag19-20

There is allot going on for loading doubles especially vintage ones.

 

[112Savage]

Don't own a double just reposting info from Africa Hunting.com I am very interested in buying a VC round action in 450/400 so I've really researched reloading and this is what everyone recommends.

Buy Grahame Wright's "Shooting the British double" very good info on regulation and reloading as well as reduced loads

 

[Greyfox]

Look for a powder that is 98+% to slightly compressed And that has a max pressure of 40,000 PSI (The old doubles were relatively low pressure and were normally less than 40,000 psi)

H 4831 is a good choice for the big bores like the 470 and will be very liner when loading. 400 to 500 grain round nose bullets are recommended and even some of the spritzers.

Use the primary barrel to work up the best load and then shoot the secondary barrel to locate the POI for it. Very few will be regulated to hit the same place but at some distance they will converge. (Nice to know where). the point of doing it this way is to have the sites set for the first shot and the follow up shot will be close no matter the distance.

Also don't over compress the loads because they will swell and might not chamber in a pinch. I recommend before doing a dangerous game hunt that you try every round in the chamber to cull any that won't chamber with ease.

J E CUSTOM

I agree

Look for a powder that is 98+% to slightly compressed And that has a max pressure of 40,000 PSI (The old doubles were relatively low pressure and were normally less than 40,000 psi)

H 4831 is a good choice for the big bores like the 470 and will be very liner when loading. 400 to 500 grain round nose bullets are recommended and even some of the spritzers.

Use the primary barrel to work up the best load and then shoot the secondary barrel to locate the POI for it. Very few will be regulated to hit the same place but at some distance they will converge. (Nice to know where). the point of doing it this way is to have the sites set for the first shot and the follow up shot will be close no matter the distance.

Also don't over compress the loads because they will swell and might not chamber in a pinch. I recommend before doing a dangerous game hunt that you try every round in the chamber to cull any that won't chamber with ease.

J E CUSTOM

I agree about keeping the pressure low. I found that the slower burners, while they would better fill the case, would not regulate as well and POI using the original express sights would be off. Some research with other shooters of the older express rifles indicated that Cordite was a relative fast burning powder and powders in the IMR 3031 burn rate range duplicated the Cordite in burn rate and pressure. It's important that the fired cases easily fall out of the chamber of the opened action when the barrels are inverted. Most dangerous game rifles had extractors ejectors, not only for the greater reliability but also for fear that the "ping" at the typically close quarters would enable dangerous game to locate the hunter. For this reason they quickly dumped the cases and loaded two more cartridges simultaneously.

 

[CUTTER1]

All great ideas. I'm from Wy but been to the ranch in Colorado to work up these loads in my dads loading room (yes after being gone 18yr it's still like new and being sentimental leaves it that way). Last nite I found some load data in the bottom of the 470 case! Also found a large film developer jug (smoke glass) labeled 4831 and a lot#. Matches the load data in the case! I'm going to try the powder in a 244AI I have that I use H4831 in to see if it compares. It was in his powder vault with some other powders and weighs 14# and was full to the cap, he used to store other powder this way as those big canisters of 4895, 4831 & BC-2 came in 20 &50# cardboard drums! The 4895 from the 60s I shot up in the 80's on prairie dogs!
Also found 470NE Knocke 500 GR solids 33 rds in original boxes! It's in tough shape so I'll not shoot it! Written on the partial box was "didn't do the best on hippo" in my dads writing. I never knew he shot a hippo and now I'm on a mission to unpack his old photo albums! It had to be in the early 50's!

 

[CUTTER1]

I have the book shooting British doubles! There are several other old books my dad collected and I'm taking them home to read, several were signed by the authors. If feel like I'm on a treasure hunt, I miss my dad
And wish he was here to tell me all the history! I have very few things on my bucket list left (and it was a long list) but this is now this is The List!

I'll keep u posted.

 

[jjmp]

Great job !!! Congrats this is SO.............exciting

 

[Dr. Mac]

Probably not the right place to ask but I'm struggling to work up loads that are well regulated for 2 of my dad double rifles. He was a maticulous record keeper but the one thing I can't find is the loads for his 3 double rifles or his 458 pre64 custom! Would love to take the 470NE or the 450/400 3.25 NE. I have dies for each and both old and some new brass for each and old Barns bullets that he used that are in amazing condition! Also have picked up some Hornady solids and soft points for each! The few loaded rounds for each both look like 4831 which makes some sense as it was widely available in 20# drums years ago (a surplus powder I think), but don't know how it will compare to new H4831. I only had a few loads of each and shot 4 from each gun and they were amazingly accurate!
The value of 50+ yo double rifles have gone thru the roof & for sentimental reasons, I don't want to screw up. I have now came to grips with going to Africa after 37 yrs (my best friend was killed with his PH, tracker and skinner on a hunt I was supposed to go on). So I'm currently planning at least 2 Safaries in the next 3 yr or so with a goal of a Sable and a Cape Buffalo with one of my dads doubles!

Any help would be appreciated!

What happened in Africa 37 years ago? How did your friend and his hunting companions get killed?

 

[epoletna]

When I lived and hunted in Tanzania in the seventies, I had am Army Navy .450 double that I loaded with 3031. I was also able to buy Kynoch ammo in those days, so used the new commercial ammo for hunting dangerous game like elephants and Cape buffalo. The reloaded stuff shot to the same aim point, so I used that for target practice. That's another rifle I regret selling!

 

[Aoudad shooter1975]

I have had the best luck with my doubles loading RL15 and using a bit of Dacron fiber or cut a powder over wad...pressure curves and burn rates more closely match the old cordite. 4831 is fine but I have found the recoil increased and regulation sometimes was more finicky even though pressure seem lower

Also remember Federal 215M primers are almost required for Double reloading