Kill the wolf?

[L.Sherm]

After meeting a guy told me an aerial count ,went from 42,to 2 on Whitefish range.Another guy told me a young guide friend has place in MFork and hunted it hard,this season, without seeing a muley buck.This area has produced dozens of 200'' muleys

3 years ago my son in law and I hiked way up into the whitefish range saw 12 bucks nothing really big we wanted to pack outs, we went back to the same spot 2 years ago zero deer and only couple tracks in the snow.
Didnt even bother to go in there this year.

 

[L.Sherm]

A looooong time ago.They should have made restrictions on this side,6 pt rule,shorter season,manage for trophy,as it all helps the game in that area.Such as how there are more areas that do this on east side.Not everywhere but a few more.And not just in a mostly privat earea like the bitteroot muley zone

I have been pushing for a zone like 270 up here for 3 years and a very limited early wilderness cabinet mtn MD permits like the Missions and Selway to no success.
Multiple emails to Biologist's in Libby and Kalispell conversations at the public meetings and non- public meetings.
I gotta give the Libby people credit for getting part of 103 Permit only for MD.
The Kalispell office was not for it but they succumbed to the pressure from Libby, that came straight from the director of the Kalispell office.
I'm afraid nothing's gonna change untill theres a whole new upper management in Region 1

 

[5.56×250]

Be careful who you say what to. Leftist scum show up in the damnest places

http://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/qbee5d/how-to-kill-a-wolf-0000259-v21n3

It amazes me how easily these activist from NYC and similar out of touch places , come into the lives of people whos lives depend on their ability to protect whats theirs and judge us based on what we drive, wear, chew , and make a meager living doing. They dont have a clue , but easily betray their own kind . Useless egomaniacs , quick to judge but unable to really see themselves in a judgemental mirror. Useless !

 

[Bro Dave]

I spoke on the Muley numbers st last years meeting, our Region 1 numbers of Mule deer are horrible.
The response I got from the F@G was we dont like to take opportunity away.
My response was your doing the same thing over and over and were getting the same results dont you think it's time to do something different before there isnt any opportunity for anybody, CRICKET'S!!

The reason they do not want to take opportunity away is because that is the only thing that they will take heat over from the general hunting public. Their decisions are not based on wildlife management but on political management.

 

[Bro Dave]

I spoke on the Muley numbers st last years meeting, our Region 1 numbers of Mule deer are horrible.
The response I got from the F@G was we dont like to take opportunity away.
My response was your doing the same thing over and over and were getting the same results dont you think it's time to do something different before there isnt any opportunity for anybody, CRICKET'S!!

The reason they do not want to take opportunity away is because that is the only thing that they will take heat over from the general hunting public. Their decisions are not based on wildlife management but on political management.

 

[WYO300RUM]

We have been in luck out here as facebook has not been notified. Every fall & spring pets, goats and such are removed from back yards by mountain lions and coyotes. Warnings go to all parents about protecting your children and pets.
Oh, according to officials we don't have mountain lions in our mountains except a 'long' ways from homes.

When I lived in Ca.. I talked to a game warden that I became friends with. He always saw my truck but not me. I was checking trail cams One day I had just come down and was getting ready to leave. Told him what I was doing. He already knew my name . Where I lived . What deer tags I had (always D14 and D16 if I didn't draw an X tag) . Ran my plates. He told my where he hunted all the time in D6 and D7. Told him I liked X12 and X9A. Saw him from time to time. Sent him trail cam pics of lions, bears (D14), deer, etc. One day while in San Diego Co., Cleavland N.F. I was talking to him about lions. At the time, he said 3 years ago they killed over 20 in that area. Next year 7. And that year 2. I said awesome but my dollars are paying for state trappers to do it. And G&F isn't getting a dime of revenue from it from tags. Calif. is one F$&#!? ( Len will rule #4 me if I say it ) state. Glad to be out of the Communist Dictatorship and back in a free state . I got a lion with a radio collar on it in one area a few times on trail cam. We wondered why we weren't seeing deer there anymore. Lots of bears on cams in San Bernardino N.F. some lions there also, bobcats and coyotes. Poor deer have nothing but predetors for nieghbors. I was seeing wolves here down in South Fork in 2001. Didn't take long to get there from Yellowstone ( no fences) and start killing Cattle. Next G&F whacked 3 in same area. Calif. Will have wolves soon (they have now in Northern Calif.) It too will be on their sacred animal list. They will come into town because of lack of prey left in the mountains. Attacking people and pets like lions. Only problem they won't be solitary. The will be in packs. G&F there is ruled by polition's and bleeding heart liberals who vote. They will sneak a moritorium In on a proposition come voting time. What year was it for lion ? 1992 ? I can't even remember anymore .
God bless and Happy New Year to all.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I think there is much motivation behind the wolf movement that is rooted in anti hunting. I do not believe that the wolves that we have were all netted in the northern territory of Canada and planted in MT, ID, and WY. The only place that I know of that they were planted was YNP. There they penned them for a year before they let them go so that they would not go back to Canada. I don't know of anywhere else that they kept wolves penned so that they would not go back to where they were captured. The wolves were coming across the border before the transplant took place in YNP. No different than the wolves in Idaho are moving into Washington and Oregon. Also the wolves in WY are Headed in to Colorado, regardless of how the folks there vote. Wolves move into other wolf pack territories and kill them or get killed. They don't know don't know about state lines or international borders. There is not nor was there ever a some magic border barrier that stopped the wolves from crossing.

Bad actors on the animal rights/anti hunting crowd, for sure. Genetically modified wolves that have been dropped in our back yards by evil doers, I don't think so. Laws that protect wolves, yes. Laws that prevent the use of any means to kill wolves, yes. Do wolves kill every living thing they can find, no. Do they take the game populations down to zero before they move on, no. Do they do damage game populations and livestock, yes.

Until those laws are changed we will have the wolves and they will continue to expand the area that they live in as long as there is food source for them. The more food source the more wolves, the less food source the less wolves.

Very good and very true post. I think the anti's... and polition's.... of Co. will introduce wolves into Co. before they ever get there themselves . After all. There's too many elk in Co..They don't want hunters and Wildlife Dept. to control the elk. They want wolves controlling them. If that happens the Wildlife Dept. will be losing revenue from tag cuts and then up go the cost of tags. We've all seen it before. As far as wolves getting to Co. on their own I'm not so sure. There's a lot of BLM, private and open land they have to cross where they can be shot on sight. .

 

[WYO300RUM]

I think there is much motivation behind the wolf movement that is rooted in anti hunting. I do not believe that the wolves that we have were all netted in the northern territory of Canada and planted in MT, ID, and WY. The only place that I know of that they were planted was YNP. There they penned them for a year before they let them go so that they would not go back to Canada. I don't know of anywhere else that they kept wolves penned so that they would not go back to where they were captured. The wolves were coming across the border before the transplant took place in YNP. No different than the wolves in Idaho are moving into Washington and Oregon. Also the wolves in WY are Headed in to Colorado, regardless of how the folks there vote. Wolves move into other wolf pack territories and kill them or get killed. They don't know don't know about state lines or international borders. There is not nor was there ever a some magic border barrier that stopped the wolves from crossing.

Bad actors on the animal rights/anti hunting crowd, for sure. Genetically modified wolves that have been dropped in our back yards by evil doers, I don't think so. Laws that protect wolves, yes. Laws that prevent the use of any means to kill wolves, yes. Do wolves kill every living thing they can find, no. Do they take the game populations down to zero before they move on, no. Do they do damage game populations and livestock, yes.

Until those laws are changed we will have the wolves and they will continue to expand the area that they live in as long as there is food source for them. The more food source the more wolves, the less food source

 

[L.Sherm]

This was couple years ago.

 

[MtPockets]

I grew up in NWMT and spoke on general thoughts,how I always had success.The very large amounts of game Ive seen,my hunting track record.Hunts seeing many as seven bulls a day,trophy caliber deer etc.All this in a wilderness area mountain setting,how this year on a 11 mile hike,I saw one mule deer track.Last 19 hunts over last 5 years,I said area I saw one cow elk.I shot alot of game in this once game rich area and never put a dent in it.What was nice was a local outfitter,that likes the high country echoed the same thing.We dont even have enough high mountain muleys in those areas to have a season.

After meeting a guy told me an aerial count ,went from 42,to 2 on Whitefish range.Another guy told me a young guide friend has place in MFork and hunted it hard,this season, without seeing a muley buck.This area has produced dozens of 200'' muleys

3 years ago my son in law and I hiked way up into the whitefish range saw 12 bucks nothing really big we wanted to pack outs, we went back to the same spot 2 years ago zero deer and only couple tracks in the snow.

What do you guys suppose has caused the decline? There have been wolves there the whole time, correct?

 

[Deleted member 48126]

@SHDeersniper i caught aids from that article. That clown from vice didn't talk to a "nice old man" at a bar. He took what little he had of firearms that he learned from video games and applied it what he assumed you take a shot on an animal. I can only pray that clown keeps doing stunts like that and eventually gets killed by a wild animal.

 

[L.Sherm]

What do you guys suppose has caused the decline? There have been wolves there the whole time, correct?

There were a few here in 1991 when I moved here out in what used to be the Lost Trail Ranch and now is Lost Trail refugee.
My belief is they have never recovered from our record 96-97 winter

I believe it's a combination of things Predators #1 Mananging just Deer, not whitetail and Mule deer #2 Loss of MD habitat #3 Look at the population growth in the last 15 years more hunters more game taken. Add it all up.

 

[WYO300RUM]

This was couple years ago.

Isn't it nice how they bring in wolves to states on their own with no vote or public input ?
A government agenda . Does this ever come to mind in the way elected officials think they rule citizens ? They were elected to work for us not rule over us. Sorry off track but I'm getting pizzed off .
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government

 

[Bro Dave]

Isn't it nice how they bring in wolves to states on their own with no vote or public input ?
A government agenda . Does this ever come to mind in the way elected officials think they rule citizens ? They were elected to work for us not rule over us. Sorry off track but I'm getting pizzed off .
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government

I started to write a diatribe 20 pages ago but I thought this thread was about done. But now that we got rid of the riff-raff and only the true believers remain.

In the summer of 1971 I worked on Isle Royale National Park, Mich. on the Peterson wolf/moose study. I was a forestry student (Mich Tech Univ) and worked on the fire succession eco-system portion of the study doing data collection, vegetation transects, soils work, and the like. At that time there were about 26 wolves on the island and 600 moose. The wolf to moose populations had already been documented as cyclical. They had data that went back to when there were no wolves and no moose on the island at all. It was very interesting and the whole impetus was to study the natural predator/prey relationship unsullied by human activity.

Over the years there have been many expansions and contractions of the moose populations. When the moose expanded the wolf soon followed suit. When the wolves over populated the moose contracted from excessive predation. Then the wolves soon followed suit. I think the ranges for wolf was from around 10 to 40+ and moose were 150+ to 1100. Don't hold me to the numbers as it has been too long ago.

This study has been going on for close to 50 years (job security?). In the last 10 years the wolves have been in steady decline from disease and inbreeding and the moose population has grown to about 1900. Last year there were two wolves left and they were a none breeding pair. This year the NPS with the help from the wolf study staff decided that the moose were going to explode and cause significant habitat damage (a human concept not found in nature). Their logical answer is to artificially re-introduce wolves thus totally screwing up the whole point of 50+ years of data collection and losing the opportunity to see how nature would respond to a wolf die off. Our tax dollars at work.

In the winter of 1973-74 I was working for a logger out of Seeley Lake (I was a faller). It was a brutal winter. We would go to work if it was -20 degrees and we still only worked 4 days in January. It was so cold and the snow so deep that the wolves came out of the high country and spent the rest of the winter picking off white-tail on the west side of Seeley and Salmon Lakes. It was great to watch the wolves (3-5 in number) in the moon light traveling up and down the ice on the west shore.

In 1986 I was the forest manager on the Blackfeet Reservation. The Chief Biologist
for Glacier Park told me they were watching a pair of wolves denned up but they were 200 yds. on the reservation and he thought I should know.

When the wolf re-introductory program got started (1992?) The US Fish and Wildlife Service and the MFWP all stated that we needed to re-introduce because outside of an occasional lone wolf passing thru there were no breeding populations in Montana. The whole re-introductory program was predicated on a lie and that is my biggest objection to the whole thing.

I went to the public meeting that was held by the USFWS in Cut Bank and listened to the presentation that was given by the head of the wolf program, I think. I listened to the very interesting presentation with all of the kill projections etc.. During the Q/A I said that according to his numbers there would be no Gardner special season in 10 years and asked if that was the intent. He said, "Oh no there will always be a Gardner hunt." I was wrong. As I recall it only took them 8 years to end the hunt.

The wolves that they trapped to release in Montana came from the Banff, B.C. area and would have been the same gene pool as those already in Montana (oh I forgot there weren't any). But what the experts did not take into consideration was what would happen when you re-introduce wolves into a protein rich environment. The whole time the wolf biologists kept saying that a pack of 3-5 would only have a recruitment rate of one to two pups a year with only the alpha female having the litters. They were blown away when the litters were 6-10 and even the subordinate females were bringing off litters. When wolves have an unlimited protein supply they will fill the void.

Twenty-five years later you can't go into mountains and not cut a wolf track ( if there are any prey there). Whole drainages that used to be Mule Deer heavens are wiped out. The Rob Cr. and Ledford Cr. drainages which are prime Mule Deer habitat are void of deer. I traveled the length of these drainages about 13 miles everyday for a week for the last two seasons and have never seen a mule deer. I have cut an occasional track in the mountains and they are always headed out. I can cut wolf tracks everyday. If you find elk tracks you will find wolf tracks.

Here on the front the Mule Deer are in steady decline. Then you read articles like in the October (or Nov.?) Montana Magazine that predation only accounts for 1-2% of mortality. Do you no any one that believes this BS? But if you repeat it enough it is the facts. Wolves eat MD for scoobey snacks.

There is no balance in nature it is a study in extremes. There is no landscape that does not exhibit the hand of man, even what we call wilderness.

What I really object to is the powers that be, take my hard earned money and then lie to me in the name of science. That burns me up.