It's also been shown to be a great powder in the 7-08.
Improving the 308 Win performance
- Thread starter nralifer
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thomasbangs
Well-Known Member
I have seen a lot posted on this forum about improving the performance of the. 308 Winchester cartridge, all has merit, bullet weight, design, powders, etc. I am sure everything posted will somehow enhance the performance of a .308 Winchester. In my opinion a .308 Winchester is not a 900 yard elk rifle no matter how good it will shoot on targets at that range and beyond as a matter of fact I don't believe any cartridge is a 900 yard elk rifle except in the hands of a few rifleman under ideal circumstances. If you want to improve the performance of a. 308 Winchester and want to invest the same amount of time, trade it for a 30-06.
Never fails.
Bill, I wish I had 3 cases of the old stuff. Does the new stuff do a good job?
Well I am doubtful that a .308 can match the ballistics of a 30-06. I shoot both of them and have shot both of them out to 1000 yards in competition. At 1000 yards the .308 is a weak sister even shooting ammo that is over 3000 fps. Many of the bullets hit a target at 1000 yards in a key hole and barely even on the target much less in the scoring rings while the 30-06 handles 1000 yards with no apparent issues. I have no desire to get into a big discussion on this subject. I'm just saying that trying to shoot an Elk at 900 yards with a .308 is pretty much an exercise in futility. One may get lucky but the chances are, "Not!"
Are you familiar with the bullets being discussed and loaded in the 308 thread? You may want to read all 26 pages!
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
Some have asked.
Gun is a heavy barrel Howa 1/10 twist with a 26 inch barrel.
Powder is the Hodgens LEVEREVOLUTION
Bullet 195 ELDX
Primers=CCIBR2 LRP
Brass= Hornady brass 5th firing
Brass is always de-primed, cleaned in a tumbler with walnut/corncob mix. Then it is annealed with a flame Annealeez at setting 32, shoulder bumped through a full length sizing die, trimmed to 2.005 and deburred, cleaned again, and then primed, charged, and bullet seat to 2.830. Fits in my mag and cycles easy. I still need to tune these rounds and try to get them to shoot around 1/2 inch at 100yrds. This is what I generally shoot for. If the loads are consistent and staying within 10 to 15fps ES then generally you can hit a 10x10 plate at 1000yrds on a no wind day. So in the end you are shooting right at MOA or a little under at 1000yrds with no wind. Now it don't always work out that way but I have had decent success with about 5 different rifles that were off the shelf rifles this way. I may be making it sound easy but it does take a lot of practice. Probably in the last 15 years I think I have loaded and shot about 15,000 rounds. When you start thinking about it this way that seem a little odd but I probably do shoot close to 1000 rounds a year between 3 to 6 rifles that I load.
Gun is a heavy barrel Howa 1/10 twist with a 26 inch barrel.
Powder is the Hodgens LEVEREVOLUTION
Bullet 195 ELDX
Primers=CCIBR2 LRP
Brass= Hornady brass 5th firing
Brass is always de-primed, cleaned in a tumbler with walnut/corncob mix. Then it is annealed with a flame Annealeez at setting 32, shoulder bumped through a full length sizing die, trimmed to 2.005 and deburred, cleaned again, and then primed, charged, and bullet seat to 2.830. Fits in my mag and cycles easy. I still need to tune these rounds and try to get them to shoot around 1/2 inch at 100yrds. This is what I generally shoot for. If the loads are consistent and staying within 10 to 15fps ES then generally you can hit a 10x10 plate at 1000yrds on a no wind day. So in the end you are shooting right at MOA or a little under at 1000yrds with no wind. Now it don't always work out that way but I have had decent success with about 5 different rifles that were off the shelf rifles this way. I may be making it sound easy but it does take a lot of practice. Probably in the last 15 years I think I have loaded and shot about 15,000 rounds. When you start thinking about it this way that seem a little odd but I probably do shoot close to 1000 rounds a year between 3 to 6 rifles that I load.
nralifer
Well-Known Member
The purpose of this thread was to demonstrate that with the right components, it can. SRP brass, LVR powder, high BC copper bullets that open at 1700fps and penetrate better than lead core jacketed bullets of the same weight and lower BC, a 26" barrel with a 308Win chamber with a longer free bore, preferably a PT&G bore rider design which allows for longer jumps and use of larger powder charge weights, is what does it. Of course, I'm comparing 3006 ballistics achieved with lower quality components and chamber designs. If you use the similar ideas in the 3006 likely you will beat the 308. Performance of any given cartridge is a function of throat design, brass quality, bullet quality, BC powder composition and burn rate.
With the new interest in 6.8 mm rounds, I expect to see some high BC bullets that will fit the ORIGINAL MAGNUM, the venerable .270 Winchester. THERE is a sleeping giant, my friends. How many rifles out there that could be rebarrelled for it?
Badlands already has high BC bullets out. As do others.
Kentuckywindage
Well-Known Member
I don't hunt elk or plan on shooting one at 900 yards with a 308 Winchester. I'm just interested in getting the most from my 308 Winchester rifle and ammo combo. 600 would be my limit on a whitetail with my 308 and its load as of now. I am however interested in high BC bullets, powders, brass, primers etc. for hunting and target with my rifle that improve upon it's already outstanding job it does within its limitations and my own abilities. If I lived in the area of elk and large bear or game of equal mass I would own a 300 Winchester magnum. As for me, my banged up body doesn't react nicely to heavy recoil. I find my 308 Winchester when asked to do its job has answered with outstanding success. Honestly though how much thicker is the hide, muscle etc. on an elk in the favorable kill zone than a large whitetail in its favorable kill zone? I ask this as I have no experience with elk and genuinely want to know. From exterior of fur to vitals, what is the distance and tissue difference?
nralifer
Well-Known Member
A big capacity cartridge such as the Win Mag on it's own does not guarantee a quick kill or accurate bullet placement. In fact a fragile bullet shot at elevated velocity will not penetrate well because it can't tolerate the stresses of a high impact velocity and fall apart. The 175 BD2 combines a high BC (G1=0.60) and with LVR powder and SRP brass can be launched at 2800-2850 fps using a 308Win case from. 24" 1:10 barrel and penetrate 30" within 500 yds. Recoil is much less than the Win Mag. Of course it can be used in the Win Mag as well.
I did something completely different than trying to maximize the 308. I downloaded it with IMR 4895 with a 110 Vmax for my 12 year old son to learn to shoot his new hunting rifle. I didn't want him to develop any bad habits or flinching with standard bullets and since I don't care for muzzle brakes, downloading was the best route for us. He is working at 100yds right now and he's doing pretty darn good for just starting out with larger center fire rifles. He's been recoil shy since his uncle put him behind his 280Rem and he got scope bit.
That one really ****ed me off because he set me back all of my time spent with my son teaching him how to shoot and progressively shooting larger calibers. Needless to say my brother in-law got an earful from me.
That one really ****ed me off because he set me back all of my time spent with my son teaching him how to shoot and progressively shooting larger calibers. Needless to say my brother in-law got an earful from me.
Good move, Warboar
Recoil maybe still too much for him. If it is a Rem 700, a 243 Win barrel will probably screw right on the action without any modifications, then you have a switch barrel.
Recoil maybe still too much for him. If it is a Rem 700, a 243 Win barrel will probably screw right on the action without any modifications, then you have a switch barrel.
