Improving the 308 Win performance

[nralifer]

Wachsmann,
The pics below show, what I would consider the beginings of primer flattening in Lapua Palma SRP brass in a series of increasing powder charges of LVR using the 175 gr BD2 bullet. Barrel was 26" 1:10 Savage. This chamber has a long throat I should mention. Jump was about 0.080" at COAL of 2.95". Speed measured by Lab Radar. Encouraging load. Will repeat in summer to see if 90F ambient temp causes problems but for now 50-50.5 gr LVR seems safe in this barrel with this jump.

 

[sea2summit]

Gday sea2summit
I always like to give the benefit of the doubt as some terminal data I may have missed as I can't keep up with all the new stuff today so I rely on reputable sources to see if anyone has a edge over another in the fields I look for
What I've seen over the years is the ones that are on song will back their statements with facts & the white noise will eventually fade
So let's see how this pans out with a reply to you as everyone should have a chance to prove their statements are factual especially when questioned

Jm2cw

Cheers

I fully concur. But quality products or not slimy marketing is slimy marketing.

 

[nralifer]

I fully concur. But quality products or not slimy marketing is slimy marketing.

I fully concur. But quality products or not slimy marketing is slimy marketing.

I don't know whether I should respond to your comment or ignore it. You need to read the purpose of this thread articulated in the first page. We would like data on component performance that improves the 308Win performance (bullets, powder, reloading techniques, primers, chamber designs, etc) not opinions. In the process many other manufacturers' products, including bullets, will be discussed. Right now, discussion on chamber designs would be especially welcomed

 

[sea2summit]

I don't know whether I should respond to your comment or ignore it. You need to read the purpose of this thread articulated in the first page. We would like data on component performance that improves the 308Win performance (bullets, powder, reloading techniques, primers, chamber designs, etc) not opinions. In the process many other manufacturers' products, including bullets, will be discussed. Right now, discussion on chamber designs would be especially welcomed

Please feel free to put me on ignore, I've tried to leave this thread and only comeback to reply to quotes.

Beyond that, anyone who reads the first 10-12 pages of this reading your crazy claims on the capabilities of the magic BD bullets. The made up assumptions of velocities you could get with heavier bullets that you apparently haven't actually achieved. Providing ballistics data with atmospherics over 5k feet to "proove" that it's a 900 yard elk gun. Finally letting it slip that your somehow involved in this bullet that is the magic snake oil capable of turning a 308 into a 30-06, maybe it's commn knowledge but I didn't realized it was your bullet. I don't think anyone needs me to call bull, they can figure it out on their own.

 

[nralifer]

You obviously did not read the post # 309. Look at the caption on the pics. 2944 fps is the average of 5 shots using SRP brass and our 175 gr BD2 bullet. Had no problems with bolt lift but some signs of primer flattening. Pics below show data from Hodgdon site of the 2 highest velocity charges they published for the 3006 using the same weight bullet (24" barrel). All the rest were lower velocities. At the very least the 308Win can match that data. I have done that with StaBall6.5 at 2880 fps from that same 26" Savage barrel, but that charge is highly compressed. LVR is not. In the Savage barrel the jump is long (0.080) which helps with using higher powder charges. Don't know what the jumps were on the Hodgdon barrel. If you are unwilling to generate and show your own data that might improve the 308Win performance, then you have little basis to say anything.

 

[Dean2]

I figured this would go this way with my reply and your response. I will politely not rebuttal back to you comment.

I'm sorry but the clams about PO Ackley. He born in 1903.

If you are going to say someone is wrong, or imply they are lying, make sure you know what you are talking about. Parker was born in 1903, he published Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders in 1962, He died in 1989. I started hand loading in 1966 and started shooting my first Widcat cartridges in 1968. You are free to disagree with me, you are not free to imply or call me a liar!

 

[Wachsmann]

Wachsmann,
The pics below show, what I would consider the beginings of primer flattening in Lapua Palma SRP brass in a series of increasing powder charges of LVR using the 175 gr BD2 bullet. Barrel was 26" 1:10 Savage. This chamber has a long throat I should mention. Jump was about 0.080" at COAL of 2.95". Speed measured by Lab Radar. Encouraging load. Will repeat in summer to see if 90F ambient temp causes problems but for now 50-50.5 gr LVR seems safe in this barrel with this jump.

That second pic is bad. I don't see any of that in my loads. I have seen the flatting of primers before with CF223 I had the primers getting a heavier ridge on them from firing pin and then the next charge up might have had the primer flatten where it just looks not right but I haven't went to the point where I had them have the burned edges around the primer or where gas has escaped. Usually I'm seeing an ejector swipe before that. The primers from the previous loads I did were fine. Theses next loads I do expect to see something probably sooner that later.

 

[Wachsmann]

I started wildcatting rounds when P.O. Ackley was still a relatively young man.

For the record this was the quote you put out there. You are implying.you started wildcatting before or earlier that PO Ackley. That would make you like 120 years old. But to be honest I'm tired of all this and you reload you way and I'll reload my way. I will post the data that I get this next week and hope I find some type of ejector swipe or something for the sake of a max charge. But like I said before probably what might be the best spot is the 46.3 grains of LVR cause it was a good flat spot for data and non compressed, fits mag length and the loads shot into about .8 MOA. They may need a little tweak to get to the 1/2 MOA but they may not.

 

[nralifer]

That second pic is bad. I don't see any of that in my loads. I have seen the flatting of primers before with CF223 I had the primers getting a heavier ridge on them from firing pin and then the next charge up might have had the primer flatten where it just looks not right but I haven't went to the point where I had them have the burned edges around the primer or where gas has escaped. Usually I'm seeing an ejector swipe before that. The primers from the previous loads I did were fine. Theses next loads I do expect to see something probably sooner that later.

I'm out of town right now but just before I left I went back and tried a 150 gr BD2 progressively going up to 52.5 gr LVR and a speed of 3180 fps at that load with the same result in primer behavior as you saw in those last pics. Everyting was shot from the same Savage barrel (26"). Again I think I have reached mac pressure for that bullet and will reduce by a grain and try in warmer weather. In the mean time will clean the barrel thoroughly and try a max shot to see if cleaning makes much of a difference in primer behavior.
Just as a point of comparison in a 20" Douglas barrel that I use to hunt with and large rifle primers that load is 49 gr LVR, 0.020 jump and a 2920 fps MV. I used that load for years to hunt with. I like what you are doing with a 195 gr bullet. When you get results you are happy with I'll try it in my rifle with both SRP and LRP brass. You are clearly exploring the edge of the envelope for the 308Win, but safely.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

For the record this was the quote you put out there. You are implying.you started wildcatting before or earlier that PO Ackley. That would make you like 120 years old. But to be honest I'm tired of all this and you reload you way and I'll reload my way. I will post the data that I get this next week and hope I find some type of ejector swipe or something for the sake of a max charge. But like I said before probably what might be the best spot is the 46.3 grains of LVR cause it was a good flat spot for data and non compressed, fits mag length and the loads shot into about .8 MOA. They may need a little tweak to get to the 1/2 MOA but they may not.

My 130 gr. Speer FBHP with 50gr. of CFE223, Winchester brass, CCI large primer, chronographed 3135 fps. I would have to look at notes for OAL, but this shows no signs of pressure and recoil is like a baby fart. Don't know if this helps? It is however a great load for less recoil, varmints and new shooter's.
I chatted with a gentleman sometime back who was testing 130 gr Barnes in .308 Winchester who was having promising or promising to him results. Hope you find a good load. I'm interested in in it myself.

 

[nralifer]

My 130 gr. Speer FBHP with 50gr. of CFE223, Winchester brass, CCI large primer, chronographed 3135 fps. I would have to look at notes for OAL, but this shows no signs of pressure and recoil is like a baby fart. Don't know if this helps? It is however a great load for less recoil, varmints and new shooter's.
I chatted with a gentleman sometime back who was testing 130 gr Barnes in .308 Winchester who was having promising or promising to him results. Hope you find a good load. I'm interested in in it myself.

Thank you for your information very helpful. Be assured that if CFE223 becomes hard to get you can use LVR in substitute grain for grain if you want. We need to get of our butts and make a 130ish grain 30 cal bullet. Would be useful in both the 308Win and the 300Blackout. What do you think?

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Thank you for your information very helpful. Be assured that if CFE223 becomes hard to get you can use LVR in substitute grain for grain if you want. We need to get of our butts and make a 130ish grain 30 cal bullet. Would be useful in both the 308Win and the 300Blackout. What do you think?

I think yes. As good a BC as possible. The gentleman I chatted with here was wanting to try this 130 combo he had on deer and elk. Me myself deer yes, as to elk I have no experience. I've had conversations with folks who talk about 243 Win., 7mm-08, 6mm creedmoor as of lately. One site in particular the conversation we had, he was taking a trip west with his 6cm and videoing. I need to check with him. Another site is Simple minded fellow on YouTube. He shoots higher velocity loads into gel, then reduced loads. As of lately checking if rpm makes a difference. Some bullets have been very suprising. I think some folks just wanna use the rifle they have within its limits, (hopefully) and use different bullets for different tasks. No arguments that a 300 Win mag tops a 308. That's a given. Today everything is expensive and some folks can't afford to go buy the next latest greatest. Putting meat on the table is still what some folks are pressed to do and want to do it with what they have. The 308 Winchester is a popular cartridge, helping folks get a little more out of it isn't a bad thing. Maybe like me. I just wanna push the limits to see what I can get from some cartridges. In the process I might get even more versatility out of my old 308 Winchester that seems to be brought up as of lately as a cartridge of the past. That to me is gonna be awhile longer.

 

[VinceMule]

For the 308 Geeks, I hope you get to try a "palma" chamber in a 4 Groove Brux or Krieger 10-12 Twist. 155's-175g TMK shoot TINY bug holes at 200 yards.

If you want to shoot those max pressures, Bush your firing pin and have your firing pin turned to match, and Palma Small primer brass demands a CCI 450, in my experience. The 450's have thick cups.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

For the 308 Geeks, I hope you get to try a "palma" chamber in a 4 Groove Brux or Krieger 10-12 Twist. 155's-175g TMK shoot TINY bug holes at 200 yards.

If you want to shoot those max pressures, Bush your firing pin and have your firing pin turned to match, and Palma Small primer brass demands a CCI 450, in my experience. The 450's have thick cups.

Thanks!
I'm looking into barrels for my 308 Win. It still shoots great, but I know it's like tires or brakes on a car.