agree with wolf. I shoot a lot of 165 to 168's.
I'm looking for advice on loading .30-06
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agree with wolf. I shoot a lot of 165 to 168's.
RockyMtnMT
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I would not recommend a 215g bullet in an 06. I have run the numbers and the effective hunting range using 1800fps as the floor, they have nearly an identical range of 600 yards compared to 165g bullet. The 165g bullet will have a longer point blank range than the heavy slow bullet. I used 2500fps for the 215g and 2900fps for the 165g bullet. The other thing that is noteworthy is the 215g bullet from a 10" twist barrel at 3000ft elevation at a temp of 25* will be under stabilized losing some of the bc and be detrimental to terminal performance. Lower the elevation or the temp and this gets significantly worse.
I think that the 180g bullets are as big as the 06 runs well with. But think it shines most with 165g. Recoil is much nicer with the 165's too.
Steve
I think that the 180g bullets are as big as the 06 runs well with. But think it shines most with 165g. Recoil is much nicer with the 165's too.
Steve
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
I guess I'm using my 30-06 for a different purpose than what the OP probably is.
I'm at 800 ft. elevation and run Litzs new adjusted BC all the way out to 1200 yards with the 215 at 2600 fps. I have no problems at all. But I'm shooting steel. I will add, that using your 1800 fps "floor", my 300 Weatherby shooting them at 3000 fps would only be good to 900 yards, I know better than that.... But everyone has there limits on what's acceptable in terms of performance so I'm not going to argue with your numbers, because that's what you recommend, and that's a good safe number for some....
I will also add, that a lot of guys at our 1200 yard range thought it was impractical too,
Until they shot their 175-178s against me in the wind, then they kinda got quiet, and I thought I may have seen some 208 ELDs in those little 308 cases last week....
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MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
I would guess with the 210/215 Bergers, my 300 Ackley is still dangerous for game at 1 mile. 1,500 yards for sure. And your .300 Wby is basically the same thing with slightly less powder room, since I form cases out of .300 Wby brass. 900 yards is just getting started for them. 
I shoot 210 VLD's in my .308 Win...Have been for years now. Even at 500' ASL, and an 11.25" twist, it puts 5 shots inside of .3xx" @ 100 yards every time (if I do my part). No complaints from me.
I shoot 210 VLD's in my .308 Win...Have been for years now. Even at 500' ASL, and an 11.25" twist, it puts 5 shots inside of .3xx" @ 100 yards every time (if I do my part). No complaints from me.
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
More energy, less drift.....that's what it's all about.... Drop is just clicks in my scope....
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Was not looking to argue. Just looking at practical hunting out to range with all things considered.
Steve
Steve
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
It's all good Steve, you're right in terms of practical purposes. A 165 grain would probably be the best all around 30-06 hunting bullet. That would be ranges out to 500ish yards. But to really stretch the capabilities of any cartridge, heavy high BC bullets is the answer, IF it can be stabilized...
About a year ago I messaged MontanaMarine. Shane gave me some good start loads with these heavy bullets, and I was able to get safe loads to 2600 fps. I actually went to 2700 fps but accuracy was better at 2600. He has taken these bullets to a mile in a 10 twist 30-06, with great results.
So.... In my opinion if the ballistics are similar to 600 yards, between the 165 and 215. The 215 starts to pull ahead after that, so it would be the more efficient bullet. The 215 has a lot less drift, and more energy across all distances compared to the 168 VLD. (with the exception at the muzzle and maybe the first 100 yards.)And it has more or as much energy at 1000 yards as the 168 does at 650 yards...
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I agree with all that. The one thing that has changed my mind on the long bullets is marginal twist and terminal performance. After all our testing I am convinced that many of the stories that have been reported here about bullet failures were due to marginal stability. I am 100% convinced that sg of 1.5 or greater should be observed for hunting bullets in order to get proper bullet performance. Altitude and temperature play a much bigger role in this than mv. The problem is that the long range game has pushed bullets to progress faster than the barrels. I think many times a tumbling bullet creates great wound channels and is thought to be good bullet performance when the shooter does not realize that it was tumbling. Problem with a tumbling bullet is it does not always track well. Also if it does not completely tumble it can do very little damage and be looked at as a bullet failure, when in fact it was a failure to properly stabilize the bullet. I hunted with marginal stability for quite a while. Accuracy was great. I saw some things after the kill that seemed odd, but the animal was dead. So I thought all was good. I know now that it was just a matter of time that it would end worse. That I would end up tracking a long ways or losing an animal.
The rifle that I am have put together now is a 9" twist in .338. I will be running our 307g Hammer in it. The 307g is designed for an 8" twist. So depending on the elevation and temp I could be marginal on stability. I will check this very closely and use a shorter bullet if we have a trip planned that will take me below 1.5 sg due to elevation and or temp. Soon we will be designing a bullet for 9" twist for the .338. I am no different than you or anyone else. I am dying to run the 307's. They will perform to the horizon. I will have drops for different bullets depending on atmospheric conditions.
Steve
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
Good luck Steve, looking forward to your testing.... I think you're on the right track, on being a sucsessful bullet maker. I am enjoying the depth of Intel you provide, and I am learning a lot.....
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Man, I guess those big slow bullets are useless...
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...irst-ever-f-tr-match-with-pierce-built-rifle/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...irst-ever-f-tr-match-with-pierce-built-rifle/
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
You and me both. I learn everything the hard way.
I have learned stuff that was never on my radar. I would much rather learn stuff the easy way, but I am not sure what the easy way is. LOLIt's all good. We will always look for a better way, or for improvement. I love this stuff.
Steve
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
Me too!!! I lay in bed at night thinking about rifles, bullets and ballistics.... It's all I do in my spare time....You and me both. I learn everything the hard way.
It's all good. We will always look for a better way, or for improvement. I love this stuff.
Steve
midmo
Well-Known Member
Would it be a bad idea to change the torque value on the action screws since I haven't had luck with h4350? I did buy some interlock spbt 165gr last night to try out. I do like the idea of a heavier bullet I could use for other hunting than whitetail here in Missouri. Where I go I rarely shoot over 200 yards
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
4350 will more than likely be better with the 165 grain bullet. I have had really good luck with IMR 4064 with 150-165 grain bullets. I had a great load of 50 grains of IMR 4064 with a 165 interlock. I have another load of 56.5 grains of IMR 4350 with a 178 Amax. So... Personally I have had better luck with 4350s with bullets of 175 grains and up....
Please use this data with proper load work up....
As far as the action screws..... I would torque them to spec... Sometimes you can play with the action screws, but I honestly believe you are using a to slow of a powder for 150s...
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