What characteristics would you consider designing into this new cartridge?
What would be your desired outcome?
What would be your desired outcome?
If you could design a cartridge from scratch
- Thread starter Darryle
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Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
Darryle,
I have designed several over the years. No two are the same.
My most recent is nothing more than a .338RUM necked to 7mm and using 7RUM brass to gain an extra .100" neck length. After a few firings I started getting inexplicable high pressure. Then I realized the brass needs to be trimmed after EVERY firing. Therefore, I already drew up a plan for a new reamer. It will be nothing more than a .338RUM improved with a 40* shoulder and still use 7RUM brass. This should prevent brass growth. Oh yea, I discovered the reamer I received is about like a standard chamber so the brass grows in diameter and has to be forced back to shape. Before I order the new reamer, I will first purchase a couple hundred 7 RUM brass and measure all of them to find the largest base and have the reamer ground to that size.
Of course this will require custom dies. My present setup is a 7RUM die with .100" turned off the bottom and the edges smoothed.
I have designed several over the years. No two are the same.
My most recent is nothing more than a .338RUM necked to 7mm and using 7RUM brass to gain an extra .100" neck length. After a few firings I started getting inexplicable high pressure. Then I realized the brass needs to be trimmed after EVERY firing. Therefore, I already drew up a plan for a new reamer. It will be nothing more than a .338RUM improved with a 40* shoulder and still use 7RUM brass. This should prevent brass growth. Oh yea, I discovered the reamer I received is about like a standard chamber so the brass grows in diameter and has to be forced back to shape. Before I order the new reamer, I will first purchase a couple hundred 7 RUM brass and measure all of them to find the largest base and have the reamer ground to that size.
Of course this will require custom dies. My present setup is a 7RUM die with .100" turned off the bottom and the edges smoothed.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I like single shots, prefer rimmed cartridges, but like some modern features.
I started down the road of a 6.5x65 R, and was going to use it to mimic one of @elkaholic Sherman.
Health derailed it.
I started down the road of a 6.5x65 R, and was going to use it to mimic one of @elkaholic Sherman.
Health derailed it.
There are so many new cartridges out today that any new ideas would only be a copy of another cartridge. Maybe a few different changes, but same ballistics.
See some shooters trying to make a cartridge and they would have the only Reamer to Chamber and then only to have the dies to sell you.
Darryle-Good conversation.
If I wanted a SNIPER Cartridge I would look for something like the Cartridge used in the movie "The Gunman" with Sean Penn when he used a Sniper Rifle to assassinate the Head of Ministry for the Country on Natural Resources.
The movie only showed the Cartridge in the magazine for a few seconds. It was very FAT and short. Looked to be a 50 cal case shortened and necked to something like a 416.
It looked very impressive. Would defiantly be a "Two Mile" Cartridge.
So If I was to design a cartridge would go that direction. A 50 cal case shortened with a 40 degree shoulder to fit a 375 to 416 caliber and a sleek 450 gr special solid metal bullet lathe/cnc turned. Get a BC of 1.0+ and 3,750fps+.
Would be used for shooting the "2 Mile" competition and also for Military use.
Hunting use would be to take any animal on our EARTH Planet since the prehistoric age.
Would be a really EYE OPENER at the Range.
We actually could design the Reamer and have JGS make it then we have the equipment to chamber the cartridge and then make the dies from the Reamer also make the custom bullets on our lathe or contract them out.
Would love to do it before I get too old and run out of money.
Good Post for a conversation on ideas for future cartridges.
I would name it the LennyBenny for my first and middled name.
See some shooters trying to make a cartridge and they would have the only Reamer to Chamber and then only to have the dies to sell you.
Darryle-Good conversation.
If I wanted a SNIPER Cartridge I would look for something like the Cartridge used in the movie "The Gunman" with Sean Penn when he used a Sniper Rifle to assassinate the Head of Ministry for the Country on Natural Resources.
The movie only showed the Cartridge in the magazine for a few seconds. It was very FAT and short. Looked to be a 50 cal case shortened and necked to something like a 416.
It looked very impressive. Would defiantly be a "Two Mile" Cartridge.
So If I was to design a cartridge would go that direction. A 50 cal case shortened with a 40 degree shoulder to fit a 375 to 416 caliber and a sleek 450 gr special solid metal bullet lathe/cnc turned. Get a BC of 1.0+ and 3,750fps+.
Would be used for shooting the "2 Mile" competition and also for Military use.
Hunting use would be to take any animal on our EARTH Planet since the prehistoric age.
Would be a really EYE OPENER at the Range.
We actually could design the Reamer and have JGS make it then we have the equipment to chamber the cartridge and then make the dies from the Reamer also make the custom bullets on our lathe or contract them out.
Would love to do it before I get too old and run out of money.
Good Post for a conversation on ideas for future cartridges.
I would name it the LennyBenny for my first and middled name.
Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Good ballistics, easy load development -works well with most suitable bullet weights & wide assortments of available powders, able to be supersonic at 1000 plus yards, with bullets having form factors less than .97 & drop less than 26 MOA with 200 yard zero at 1000. Good barrel life & moderate recoil. Able to fund components without a credit card explosion. Raging hot popularity with no component shortages.
High probability of hits on 1/2-gallon milk carton size targets at 1/2 section (880 yards) without frying hot barrel temps.
6mm Creedmoor comes real close.
6mm Ace Master.
High probability of hits on 1/2-gallon milk carton size targets at 1/2 section (880 yards) without frying hot barrel temps.
6mm Creedmoor comes real close.
6mm Ace Master.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
If money were no object it'd be fun to try and see just how hard one could push the envelope. Not for any practical reason, just fun, in the name of SCIENCE 
I do know some larger military arms use TRIPLE BASE powder - nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin, nitroguanidine. The latter is found in small amount in some consumer "flash reduced" powders. It has all at once a slower burn rate than either of the former but higher total gas expansion velocity at lower temps with lower flash. Too slow to be useful in most any sane "small arms".
Pair it in conjunction with a modern "precision falling block" action made tough as nails and allowing a longer barrel for given rifle length. See if carbon wrapping a truly thick and long pipe adds rigidity worth noting.
Experiment it polygonal rifling (a very small number of rifles do use this, HK makes some, as well as glock pistols). Gain twist and VERY slight "gain squeeze" going down the pipe maybe. nitride treated. No less than 34 inch pipe, probably longer.
Revisit the .30-408 cheytac that @Fiftydriver experimented with in the early days of APS rifles with erratic results and bullets that couldn't take it, now with monos and this ultra slow progressive powder. Some hammer grooves might not hurt
or drive bands or bore riders etc. HBN treated.
See just how dang fast we can go with a 30
I do know some larger military arms use TRIPLE BASE powder - nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin, nitroguanidine. The latter is found in small amount in some consumer "flash reduced" powders. It has all at once a slower burn rate than either of the former but higher total gas expansion velocity at lower temps with lower flash. Too slow to be useful in most any sane "small arms".
Pair it in conjunction with a modern "precision falling block" action made tough as nails and allowing a longer barrel for given rifle length. See if carbon wrapping a truly thick and long pipe adds rigidity worth noting.
Experiment it polygonal rifling (a very small number of rifles do use this, HK makes some, as well as glock pistols). Gain twist and VERY slight "gain squeeze" going down the pipe maybe. nitride treated. No less than 34 inch pipe, probably longer.
Revisit the .30-408 cheytac that @Fiftydriver experimented with in the early days of APS rifles with erratic results and bullets that couldn't take it, now with monos and this ultra slow progressive powder. Some hammer grooves might not hurt
or drive bands or bore riders etc. HBN treated. See just how dang fast we can go with a 30
sable tireur
Well-Known Member
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Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Just you wait!
With these new high bc .25 cal bullets there is opportunity! So many on here hate anything creedmoor…but what if…I wonder…do you think we could use the .22-250 Remington case instead and still be cool? Just imagine? A 250-22-250. Why hasn't someone done this yet???
It's kind of like my wildcat idea based on the 7mm stw necked up to 8mm
FrogFire7
Well-Known Member
25-.22-250 BR AI Creedmoor
Couldn't think of any other acronyms to tack on.
Couldn't think of any other acronyms to tack on.
scpaul
Well-Known Member
Heinz 25 ?
del2les
Well-Known Member
Instead of a new case/cartridge, I would like to design an improved bullet and powder/s.
As a bullet swager, years ago some of us played with powdered tungsten as a heavier than lead core material, and it gave impressive results in shorter, heavy bullets that could be stabilized in standard twist barrels of the day. Imagine a 75-77gr .224 bullet that would shoot in your 1/12tw .223 or 1/14tw 22-250, or a 110-115gr 6mm that worked well in the 1/10tw barrels.
Along those lines, I love playing around with sabot loads, so improving the sabot design/material and loads to reach much better rifle accuracy would be a great way to increase velocities without increasing case size and powder charge. In handguns, I have had some decent success in this, so I have given fair thought to producing a few select handgun loads for a special niche' market.
Edit) Imagine a 30-06 case with a sabot 25cal that outperforms a 257WB, or a 338-06 case or similar with a sabot .277 bullet that out runs a 270WB or 270WSM. Similar with a 308 type of case or numerous others. I've loaded a 45-70 with a sabot 35cal 200gr SP to greatly improve BC, speed and range. Sabots have a far lower friction ration than jacket metals, and thus can be driven to higher vels than same weight at caliber bullets. Just look up the fastest 110gr load for a 30-06 or similar (3,600+fps) and imagine that is a 110gr 25cal or 100-105gr 6mm. Rinse and repeat for various calibers. There is much advantage and untapped velocity potential in the bore expansion ratio with sub caliber bullets.
Powders have come a ways since my early days, but I believe there is an opportunity here. Similar to when we went from BP to smokeless, I think one day a new type of propellant will come on the scene.
Edit) To add photos of 45 LC with 40 and 357 cal sabots for use in handguns and rifles. Second photo L to R: 460 S&W with 357 190gr WFN for handgun or rifle (3,100+fps in 20" barrel), 357 Max with 180SSP (Similar 35cal 180 and 200gr used in 460 or 45-70), and a 45LC with 40cal sabot with 200gr.
As a bullet swager, years ago some of us played with powdered tungsten as a heavier than lead core material, and it gave impressive results in shorter, heavy bullets that could be stabilized in standard twist barrels of the day. Imagine a 75-77gr .224 bullet that would shoot in your 1/12tw .223 or 1/14tw 22-250, or a 110-115gr 6mm that worked well in the 1/10tw barrels.
Along those lines, I love playing around with sabot loads, so improving the sabot design/material and loads to reach much better rifle accuracy would be a great way to increase velocities without increasing case size and powder charge. In handguns, I have had some decent success in this, so I have given fair thought to producing a few select handgun loads for a special niche' market.
Edit) Imagine a 30-06 case with a sabot 25cal that outperforms a 257WB, or a 338-06 case or similar with a sabot .277 bullet that out runs a 270WB or 270WSM. Similar with a 308 type of case or numerous others. I've loaded a 45-70 with a sabot 35cal 200gr SP to greatly improve BC, speed and range. Sabots have a far lower friction ration than jacket metals, and thus can be driven to higher vels than same weight at caliber bullets. Just look up the fastest 110gr load for a 30-06 or similar (3,600+fps) and imagine that is a 110gr 25cal or 100-105gr 6mm. Rinse and repeat for various calibers. There is much advantage and untapped velocity potential in the bore expansion ratio with sub caliber bullets.
Powders have come a ways since my early days, but I believe there is an opportunity here. Similar to when we went from BP to smokeless, I think one day a new type of propellant will come on the scene.
Edit) To add photos of 45 LC with 40 and 357 cal sabots for use in handguns and rifles. Second photo L to R: 460 S&W with 357 190gr WFN for handgun or rifle (3,100+fps in 20" barrel), 357 Max with 180SSP (Similar 35cal 180 and 200gr used in 460 or 45-70), and a 45LC with 40cal sabot with 200gr.
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scpaul
Well-Known Member
I've seen a TV segment with Barrett talking about a bullet that remains supersonic for extreme distances. It looked like a turned brass 338 (?). The short time that the projectile is shown is very short. Is there any more info on this arrangement that you know of. I'd especially like to see an engineering drawing of the bullet and the case too if it's anything really different about the case.
I have played with wild cats for a long time. Longer necks give less throat erosion as PO Ackley mentioned. I made a 6 XC with a .400 length neck, formed brass from Lapua 308 Palma brass, and the lack of throat erosion at 900 rounds was only .007, which is nothing short of amazing! 105-107g bullets at 3150 out of a 31" 8T barrel.
I had noticed previously having shot out a multitude of 243 Win barrels and 6 Rem barrels that the 6 Rem had less throat wear.
I would love to play with longer necks from some other cartridges.
I had noticed previously having shot out a multitude of 243 Win barrels and 6 Rem barrels that the 6 Rem had less throat wear.
I would love to play with longer necks from some other cartridges.
220 SWIFTER Exact same everything just a different head stamp. Spend more on internet fantasy claims and some hunt influencer on exaggerated and select info on what it can kill and do. Boom capitalize on ignorance and internet intelligence and you have the newest and best selling cartridge.
