How do we deal with some of the realities of our sport?

[MMERSS]

Range is the most important factor of those which we can control.

True, range is an important factor we can control along with others. If we can control range to the fullest extent possible then it is conceivable all of our hunting shots could be within range not considered long range. In this case I believe many of our problem discussions would be solved. There are very few hunting situations where we can't control getting closer to the animal. We elect to not reduce this range for various reasons.

As range increases all of the variables play greater roles in the likelihood of putting the shot in the right spot.

Absolutely, with wind uncertainty possibly being the greatest variable with putting the shot into the right spot. We should be able to confirm range to target with the use of a range finder. As we are aware, wind uncertainty seems to be the most difficult aspect of extended range shooting amplified by range.

This is the "Range Shooting and Hunting Forum" so I find it a bit ridiculous to think we should leave it out of the discussion.

For those in love with the math your suggestion would make for interesting reading but for most of the world it would be as dry as reading recipe books.

Those that want to leave any aspect of pre-harvest facts out have the ability to do so. How many posts do we see with only the range as the pre-facts? With range only some of us would would wish for a dry recipe book while others in the rest of the world maybe not. Ultimately it will be up to each individual to decide on what pre-facts they want to include in their posts. Leaving range out and including the dry recipe book is for consideration versus only range without the book. To each their own on how they want to post.

I appreciate your feedback.

 

[WildRose]

True, range is an important factor we can control along with others. If we can control range to the fullest extent possible then it is conceivable all of our hunting shots could be within range not considered long range. In this case I believe many of our problem discussions would be solved. There are very few hunting situations where we can't control getting closer to the animal. We elect to not reduce this range for various reasons.

We do so mainly because we are long range hunters. It's what makes shots more difficult no matte what all of the other variables involved are doing.

Absolutely, with wind uncertainty possibly being the greatest variable with putting the shot into the right spot. We should be able to confirm range to target with the use of a range finder. As we are aware, wind uncertainty seems to be the most difficult aspect of extended range shooting amplified by range.

Most certainly.

Those that want to leave any aspect of pre-harvest facts out have the ability to do so. How many posts do we see with only the range as the pre-facts? With range only some of us would would wish for a dry recipe book while others in the rest of the world maybe not. Ultimately it will be up to each individual to decide on what pre-facts they want to include in their posts. Leaving range out and including the dry recipe book is for consideration versus only range without the book. To each their own on how they want to post.

I agree. Knowing the range though is the place to start. A hundred yard shot with a 60mph quartering headwind is still very doable for most anyone. A thousand yard shot with a 16mph wind is dramatically different.

Think of how many of those thread are immediately followed up with question as to the rest of the conditions present if the discussion then moves to "what did I do wrong".

Driver errors, flinches etc also cause errors that grow exponentially with increases in range so again the range is important in dissecting what might have gone wrong.

I appreciate your feedback.

Same here, it's a discussion so we discuss.

 

[benchracer]

Relative to this debate, I am on the side of showing the unvarnished truth. To fail to do so is to deprive us all of opportunities to study, learn, and better ourselves.

The caveat to that is to be mindful of the audience. As someone else pointed out, a much broader array of material would be appropriate for those of us here vs a broader, less informed audience on Facebook.

I would also add that I believe it is fundamentally important to go with your gut instincts whether you are deciding to post something or not, just like when you are making the decision to draw down and squeeze the trigger or not.

When we, as individuals, make decisions on what to post and what not to post, we should hold ourselves accountable for our words and deeds and should not take it personally when someone else does the same (easier said/written than done). Spirited debates are themselves useful and educational, provided that the focus is on the facts rather than the people involved. Disagreement does not constitute disrespect.

When it comes to debates, the most instructive part of a debate is not WHAT a person believes, but WHY they believe it. To properly draw that out often requires a heated crucible of passionate, adversarial discussion. Those who are too conflict averse to handle such adult pursuits would be best served to seek another hobby or another forum.

I can think of several HEATED debates that I have followed on this site where I learned a lot. I am grateful to the participants in those debates for putting their thoughts and egos out in the open and subjecting themselves to slings and arrows in doing so.

 

[FEENIX]

Must be the cold and the scoth...again.

Interesting thread (I've been reading along, all along)....

One always has to keep in mind that the people who ultimately decide on our fate aren't participants in our venue. That applies to most venues, not just this one.

Yes, but just trying to keep it simple and straight forward.

Self-moderate!

 

[Erik Kiser]

I saw a video on Youtube a couple days ago where a guy missed his first two shots before connecting on the third on an elk

 

[gspman]

I have no problem with LRH as long as the proper practice has been utilized. I practice year round at 600 yds at home and up to 900 yds up north where my cabin is. (Big cranberry marsh, as long as its frozen)
I have made some spectacular shots on deer that now in my old age I consider very, very lucky. And really in the scope of things were prolly bad decisions, even though I made quick kills.

This past season, I participated in the 2nd elk hunt of my life and killed my 1st bull. He and 6 cows broke the ridge in front of me and headed downhill from there. I dropped to my belly, threw the pack under the gun, waited for the bull to pass a pre-ranged landmark, and cut loose.
The .280 barked 3 times, I had 3 hits in the lungs at 427yds and a dead bull on the ground 40yds later.
It was all automatic, That my friends was not me just blazing away, it was calculated and precise.
Practice made that possible, even though 427yds is not really that far.

And at the end of the day I had a huge smile on my face.

 

[farout]

And at the end of the day I had a huge smile on my face.

That my friend would put a huge smile on anyone's face. Very good shooting. Congratulations.

 

[Michael Eichele]

began construction of a 1000 yd range (In Alaska).

I've heard a lot of rumors come and go for the last 17 years or so. Do you have any other info on this?? Not doubting you. I'd just love to know where and when. The 1000 yard matches are held at the army base in Fairbanks but there's no public access except during matches. Unfortunately this year wasn't possible. We need a public 1000 yard range bad.

M

 

[Greyfox]

I am in agreement with many of the previous posts in that I see nothing wrong with the video. I think it's a true representation of what happens with our sport. The reaction to long range hunting is quite similiar to the appearance of the compound bow back in the seventies. It took quite a few years for some factions of the bowhunting community to accept it. Some chose to stick with traditional equipment, but the coexistence of approach was understood and eventually excepted. It took time and education. Long range hunting and the equipment used is disrupting the traditional practices. Those who are proficient in LR hunting know that success is a function of knowledge and practice. We should not temper what we see as educational and a componet of success in our sport. As to what is depicted in videos, most of us know what's acceptable and what is not whether the hunting is at 100 yards, or 1000 yards. The LR sport is already in the process of being accepted. We can already see the mainstream publications producing articles and reviewing rifles and equipment used for LR Hunting. I think any intelligent person that digs into this site can easily see that long range hunting is viable, but to be successful, you have to commit to a whole new level of equipment, knowledge, and skills. Some will, some won't, and some can't. This shouldn't hamper us. LR hunting is here to stay! IMO.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I've heard a lot of rumors come and go for the last 17 years or so. Do you have any other info on this?? Not doubting you. I'd just love to know where and when. The 1000 yard matches are held at the army base in Fairbanks but there's no public access except during matches. Unfortunately this year wasn't possible. We need a public 1000 yard range bad.

M

Mile 94 on the Parks Highway. Here's a lnk to the thread and POC's

1000 yd range becoming a reality. - Page 3

 

[Michael Eichele]

Mile 94 on the Parks Highway. Here's a lnk to the thread and POC's

1000 yd range becoming a reality. - Page 3

Thank you. It's been rumored for 10 years that they would turn that 100 yard range to a 1000 yard range. If and when it gets complete it'll be a sweet deal. I won't even complain that it's 150 miles from my house. I used to be able to shoot 1000 yards in a sand river bottom 50 miles away but the state deemed it a recreation area about 10 years ago and banned shooting of any kind there. That left me with one other place to go long but I can only get 725 yards out of it. It's an old abandoned open pit coal mine 75 miles away. Windy as hell which is great for practice but not so great for the fine tuning. The river bottom in the dead of winter would be flat dead calm in the morning so you could really fine tune drops and see the real accuracy potential of a load at distance. The mine isn't accessible by highway vehicle in the winter where the river was.

This is exciting news.

Sorry about the hijack.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thank you. It's been rumored for 10 years that they would turn that 100 yard range to a 1000 yard range. If and when it gets complete it'll be a sweet deal. I won't even complain that it's 150 miles from my house. I used to be able to shoot 1000 yards in a sand river bottom 50 miles away but the state deemed it a recreation area about 10 years ago and banned shooting of any kind there. That left me with one other place to go long but I can only get 725 yards out of it. It's an old abandoned open pit coal mine 75 miles away. Windy as hell which is great for practice but not so great for the fine tuning. The river bottom in the dead of winter would be flat dead calm in the morning so you could really fine tune drops and see the real accuracy potential of a load at distance. The mine isn't accessible by highway vehicle in the winter where the river was.

This is exciting news.

Sorry about the hijack.

No worries. I'm glad to see the Alaska enthusiasts getting it together.

 

[Michael Eichele]

No worries. I'm glad to see the Alaska enthusiasts getting it together.

No kidding. I'd pay a lot of $$ for an annual membership to a 1k yard range.

I use to shoot competitive archery with Doug years ago. He's a goofball for sure but very cool. I mean that with respect!