Honing Die Necks

[MagMan]

Does anyone have advise on what tools and procedure would be used to hone the necks on various factory sizing dies?


Thanks

 

[BountyHunter]

Most of the time the factory will do it for a small charge. I do not think I would try this at home.

Jim Carstenson, JLC Precision (go to www.6mmbr.com and look under "Tools") will convert your die to bushings for around $50. Normally less than two week turnaround and top quality job.

He will also custom make a die from a Redding body bump die ($25). Send him 10 cases fired 2-3X and around $80. It will be custom honed to your chamber, FL size with neck bushings.

BH

 

[MagMan]

I seen your other post with the link to Jim which is what made me think of it, that and I finally got my Forester die with a neck to my specifications.....which only took 6 months and 2 tries.

Any idea if Jim will do just a hone? I don't really need a bushing die when I could have a couple thousandths taken out of my existing die and have it perfect.

Ultimately I was hoping for some ideas on how to do this myself. I realize Forester will do this procedure for like $8 but the rest of my dies are manufacturers other than Forester.

Thanks though,

I think I'm going to take a stab at it. Drill rods and lapping compound here we come.

 

[BountyHunter]

call or email him. I have always found him reasonable. contact info on 6mbr

BH

 

[woods]

Why not outside neck turn your brass so that you can get the bullet grip you want by using your FL die sans expander without honing it out. It would seem easier to to take brass off the outside of the neck than it would be to take hardened steel off the inside of the neck in your die.

 

[MagMan]

Why not outside neck turn your brass so that you can get the bullet grip you want by using your FL die sans expander without honing it out.

Because I want to get rid of the expander. If I want something expanded I'll use an expander die. If you've never used a FL die with the proper neck diameter less the expander ball, your missing out.

It would seem easier to to take brass off the outside of the neck than it would be to take hardened steel off the inside of the neck in your die.

You sure would think so.... I'd be willing to bet that I can have that die honed out faster than I could turn 100 necks considering that I don't have the tooling and or the know how. On a side note those 100 turned necks are only going to last so long and then I'd be doing them again (new ones of course), surely the die wold be a better investment in the long run....wouldn't you think?

 

[woods]

Because I want to get rid of the expander. If I want something expanded I'll use an expander die. If you've never used a FL die with the proper neck diameter less the expander ball, your missing out.

That's what I meant. Outside neck turn and just size with the FL die after removing the expander (sans expander). Most of the FL dies I have measured allow you to take a case with ~.012" neck thickness and size (without the expander) and it will give you ~.003" bullet grip. All of the FL dies I have tested have very good concentricity.

Personally I don't mind outside neck turning and it only needs to be done once. It will have added benefits. If you hone a die out and size with it, it will push all the inconsistancies in neck thickness to the inside of the neck unless you have neck turned to a consistant neck thickness. IME inconsistant neck diameters on the inside lead to runout and inconsistant bullet grip.

But hone away, let us know how it turns out.

 

[CliffM]

MagMan: Did a die a couple of weeks ago, very easy to do. I had a 40-65 die that sized inside of the case to about.395. then the expander button brought it back out to .407. It seemed an excessive amount to work the brass so I split the end of a dowel with a hacksaw and wound a strip of 220 grit wet or dry sandpaper on it until it was a snug fit, chucked in the cordless drill and held it under the faucet with a trickle of water running. It took a few strips to get it out to the size I wanted, then I finished with 320 grit. Now the expander will just barely open the neck a little more when I bell the mouth for the bullet. It worked well enough I may have to do some others. No postage, no waiting no problem. CliffM

 

[foreign]

y not put the expander ball in a lath and turn it down until its to the specs u want. then as the brass gets pulled out of the die the neck gets expanded to the exact size you want for the right neck tension. or am i missing something here??

 

[MagMan]

Woods.......the light just came on lightbulb, I'm picking up what your saying now. Makes sense, though I think I'm still going to hone this die.

or am i missing something here??

I believe that to be the case. By decreasing the size of the expander ball I would be increasing my neck tension. My neck tension is good I just want to get rid of the dreaded expander. By having the right sized neck I would only have to lightly squeeze the necks in by like .003 which again is much easier than pulling something over a sizing button as the run out should be perfect (on the outside anyway).


Cliff, while I was going to get a little more technical with it sounds like your idea will work just fine. I have a couple of practice dies laying around and I'll experiment on those first. Thanks

 

[CliffM]

Yes it does sound a bit on the crude side but the results are good. The wet or dry paper cuts fast enough but is not so aggressive as to cause concern about over doing it. The paper is thin enough to make it easy to control diameter by how many wraps are used. Just work it back and forth the full length of the neck like honing an engine cylinder and let the water keep it flushed clean. Run a case through the die at intervals to check progress until you arrive at your desired diameter. CliffM

 

[woods]

Another down side to honing the die is that if you change brass manufacturer or sometimes even get a different lot of brass then the neck thickness can change. That will mean that you will get a different bullet grip every time your brass changes.

Not trying to discourage you just playing devil's advocate here and thinking it through myself.

 

[MagMan]

Another down side to honing the die is that if you change brass manufacturer or sometimes even get a different lot of brass then the neck thickness can change.

I did also think about that. Worse case scenario then I'd have to purchase a bushing for one of my other neck dies. I'm not to worried as I usually keep quite a bit of matching brass around.

Not trying to discourage you just playing devil's advocate here and thinking it through myself.

No worries, I just got really excited when all of my cases were flat lines on the concentricity gauge (not even a wiggle). That is what prompted me to try and do this to my other dies. Granted when I seated bullets some of the cases did have some runout (high spots that I pushed in is all I can figure) but not enough to concern me as I just sort them for sight in and fouling.

 

[MagMan]

As an update tonight I got to honing with a piece of 1/8" drill rod, a few pieces of 200 & 320 grit emery cloth and some reinforced packing tape all chucked up in a cordless drill. It took about a half an hour and I managed to hone close to .0035". After running the 320 the neck looked as smooth as it did before I started. All was done in the kitchen sink with plenty of water.

Total indicated run out on every case was no more than .0005 so to say I'm happy is an understatement.

I did check it like 10 times (trial and error) because I was afraid to go to far. If anyone else has the ambition to try this just remember to take your time and those dies are a hell of a lot harder than they look.

Thanks to all.