Hexagonal Boron Nitride

[Pdvdh]

Cliff,
I think David Tubbs supplies a 1/4 teaspoon measure to use with his HBN bullet coating kits. 0.5 mil is only 0.034 teaspoon. I suspect you're using more HBN than that.

I was using about 1/2 teaspoon per batch on some of my early batches of bullets. Turned out just fine. But when I found out Tubbs was recommending 1/4 teaspoon, I started using ~1/4 teaspoon. Just means I was wasting a little HBN while using 1/2 teaspoon. If you're coating with 0.034 teaspoon, you're getting great mileage out of your HBN.
Nothing wrong with that if it's working well.

CTF,
Cliff may be right. I think you're using a lot more HBN than necessary in an 8 oz canning jar. You should be able to drop back to 1/4 teaspoon and be fine, based on my experiences.

 

[royinidaho]

. Since I've only ever cleaned the bore with Hopes #9 Benchrest and a 6.5 Bore Snake. . . . Plus I haven't cleaned the bore in hundreds of rounds and it is still grouping in the. .3s at 100 with a 1-4 power scope set on 4 power.

Why does hearing "Cleaned w/a Bore Snake" give me a major case of vapors?

"Still grouping in .3s @ 100" after not cleaning for 100s of rounds caused me to ask, What's your cleaning technique? As I worry, maybe excessively, about dragging that rope across the crown.

Thanks for the post. Hopefully I can learn something from this.

Thanks

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I pour a bunch of #9 Benchrest in the chamber and of the barrel. Swirl the rifle around for a few minutes. Drop the Snake weight thru the bore , chamber to muzzle. Sit the rifle on it's butt and pull hard. Repeat 3 or 4 times. Ttbomk there has never been a cleaning rod in the bore of my rifle. Only the Bore Snake. Works like a million bucks ! .

I don't plan on arguing cleaning techniques so. That's just how I do it and it works great. I'm between 300&400 rounds since I cleaned it last . Still shoots great. Barrel has around 1,000 rounds down it so far.

Phorwath; that's good to know. I have a bunch of TSX and TTSX bullets to cost soon so I will try it with 1/4 teaspoon of hbn powder.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

My rifle now has an 18.6" barrel. Last year I took a Sawzall and bucked the barrel off and finished it at 18.6" .
I pull straight up on the Snake rope so the crown isn't being eroded from cleaning. . And of course. I don't clean it that often.

 

[Pdvdh]

Phorwath; that's good to know. I have a bunch of TSX and TTSX bullets to cost soon so I will try it with 1/4 teaspoon of hbn powder.

Let us know if you see any obvious differences using less HBN in your rotary tumbler? Thanks

 

[CliffM]

I went and actually looked to see what size the scoop is. .15cc, more than I thought but still not much.
Cliff

 

[royinidaho]

My rifle now has an 18.6" barrel. Last year I took a Sawzall and bucked the barrel off and finished it at 18.6" .
I pull straight up on the Snake rope so the crown isn't being eroded from cleaning. . And of course. I don't clean it that often.

Thanks for the response.

I feel better now.:roll eyes:

Once I get the HBN up and running I'll see how much cleaning she's gonna need.

I may have learned something.

Thanks again.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

How often do you clean your bore? I used to scrub mine all the time. And my inherent accuracy wasn't nearly as good as what all my rifles are producing now.
The only on that I think has had an accuracy problem due to a fouled bore is my wife's 308 . Ruger Compact SS. . That happened, I think anyway. Because I made her up a Plinker load with 100 gr 30 Carbine half jacket bullets pushed by Unique. Unique is a dirty powder from what I've seen. I may need to clean my 223 soon. Can't remember the last time I did but it was at least 350 rounds ago. And probably at least 2 years ago.

 

[Pdvdh]

I don't shoot a whole lot compared to many others I read about. All I can say is that the one factory .223 barrel I have on an AR copper fouls much less with HBN coated bullets. Other barrels that didn't collect any copper to speak of, collect even less, based on my observations down the muzzle with a flashlight. Don't own a bore scope, so I can't comment in fine detail.

I clean bores less than I ever have in my life with HBN coated bullets.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

Nitride the barrel when ALMOST new, Use HBN all the time. NEVER clean the barrel again. Even on solid copper pills that have bad reps of fouling the bore. I lap all factory barrels before the nitride and use Broughton 5c barrels 80% of the time. I am sure that helps in the non cleaning recommendation.

 

[dok7mm]

Nitride the barrel when ALMOST new, Use HBN all the time. NEVER clean the barrel again. Even on solid copper pills that have bad reps of fouling the bore. I lap all factory barrels before the nitride and use Broughton 5c barrels 80% of the time. I am sure that helps in the non cleaning recommendation.

I have been looking at the HBN for a year or so and have been following this thread. I have gotten more solid information here than any of my own investigations. I am 95% sold on trying it in several rifles, but have a couple of questions that I have not seen addressed. 1. I have a good deal of IMR 7977 I am hoping to use and wonder if the CFE additive will have a negative impact on the bore coating process vs. non-CFE powders. Common sense tells me there would be even less fouling, but I wonder if the CFE agent might "erase" the HBN layer as well. 2. A couple of the subject rifles are unfired as of now and a couple have 2-250 rds fired (all are 26" 9 twist 5R Bartliens). I am wondering if I should start the new tubes with HBN during barrel break-in or after they settle in. The ALMOST NEW part caught my attention. Thanks to all for the very informative thread.

 

[Pdvdh]

I have been looking at the HBN for a year or so and have been following this thread. I have gotten more solid information here than any of my own investigations. I am 95% sold on trying it in several rifles, but have a couple of questions that I have not seen addressed. 1. I have a good deal of IMR 7977 I am hoping to use and wonder if the CFE additive will have a negative impact on the bore coating process vs. non-CFE powders. Common sense tells me there would be even less fouling, but I wonder if the CFE agent might "erase" the HBN layer as well. 2. A couple of the subject rifles are unfired as of now and a couple have 2-250 rds fired (all are 26" 9 twist 5R Bartliens). I am wondering if I should start the new tubes with HBN during barrel break-in or after they settle in. The ALMOST NEW part caught my attention. Thanks to all for the very informative thread.

1) I'd be very surprised if the CFE additive has any affect on HBN, or vice versa; CFE would help reduce copper fouling just as it does if not using HBN coated bullets, IMO.
2) If you believe if barrel break-in, then you likely believe that the first bullets fired down the bore help to lap the bore and diminish/smooth any roughness left by the chamber reamer in the throat, or any minor imperfections down the rest of the bore. I would break the barrel in with uncoated bullets, with an uncoated bore for those first bullets fired during bore break-in. idaho elk hunter stated "Nitride" the barrel when almost new. Don't confuse nitride with HBN. Nitride treatment of the barrel / bore is also called melonite treatment, and it's a completely separate and unique treatment process in which the barrel is removed from the action [after the barrel break-in] and sent in for a specialized hot bath treatment process that surface hardens the exterior surfaces of the barrel and bore (~0.001" depth of surface hardness penetration), and reduces the coefficient of friction of the surface of the bore (makes the bore slippery). So idaho elk hunter was stating that if you "nitride" a barrel after barrel break-in, and then solely shoot HBN coated bullets, he thinks one may never have to clean their bores. That's was my interpretation. If I misunderstood, then hopefully idaho elk hunter will return and correct/clarify.

If you don't believe in barrel break-in, or that barrel break-in is beneficial to a new bore, then what I stated above may only be jibberish to those belonging to that camp of thought. I always complete a barrel break-in process on any new bore, so my recommendations (above) are based on my understandings and opinions on the benefits of barrel break-in.

 

[dok7mm]

Thanks Phorwath. I do know the difference, as I have been exploring using the combination of a Melonited barrel and the HBN bullet coating for use on a new 7STW. Being this was the HBN thread, I wanted to be sure I understood what Idaho elk hunter was referencing. I also believe in proper break-in of barrels to smooth things up. I expect my Bartleins to be very accurate, but it takes a few more rounds for me to establish that to my satisfaction, prior to shipping a barrel off to be nitride soaked. I too, doubt the CFE would cause a problem in a nitride treated barrel, but not so sure in a HBN treated barrel. Barely passed chemistry, so I don't really know how CFE works to lessen fouling. I do believe the nitride is better for extended throat life and the HBN can't hurt, especially in the realm of consistant neck tension and added lubricity. I appreciate your response.

 

[Pdvdh]

Cliff,
I think David Tubbs supplies a 1/4 teaspoon measure to use with his HBN bullet coating kits. 0.5 mil is only 0.10 teaspoon. I suspect you're using more HBN than that.

I was using about 1/2 teaspoon per batch on some of my early batches of bullets. Turned out just fine. But when I found out Tubbs was recommending 1/4 teaspoon, I started using ~1/4 teaspoon. Just means I was wasting a little HBN while using 1/2 teaspoon. If you're coating with 0.10 teaspoon, you're getting great mileage out of your HBN.
Nothing wrong with that if it's working well.

CTF,
Cliff may be right. I think you're using a lot more HBN than necessary in an 8 oz canning jar. You should be able to drop back to 1/4 teaspoon and be fine, based on my experiences.

I see I posted incorrect information comparing milliliters to teaspoons above. So I corrected that in bold font. For the record: 0.5 milliliters = 0.1 teaspoon.