Help with new magneto speed numbers

[misterc01]

Looking at a couple comments - a question: I understand the rationale for annealing, but if my brass does not need it yet, why the regular admonition anneal after every firing? Added , neck sizing also cuts down the frequency to anneal a well. Point me to another thread if appropriate. Thx.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

theres alot of neck in a 3006 .. a turning operation would probably help grip tension, and id bet drop the spreads as well

 

[Tac-O]

Looking at a couple comments - a question: I understand the rationale for annealing, but if my brass does not need it yet, why the regular admonition anneal after every firing? Added , neck sizing also cuts down the frequency to anneal a well. Point me to another thread if appropriate. Thx.

Lots of long range shooters/hunters anneal every time for ultimate consistency in finding that tightest group and velocity spread. A LOT of people just go up to 4 firings on brass without annealing and seem to do fine, but I don't know how far how they're shooting for accuracy. Just do a search on annealing frequency and I'm sure you'll come up with plenty of good, informative threads.

theres alot of neck in a 3006 .. a turning operation would probably help grip tension, and id bet drop the spreads as well

Neck turning and annealing are two things I'm trying to avoid adding to the process. My goal for hunting is hitting a 1.5MOA target on demand at 500 yards. So, I'm really hoping I can accomplish that without having to start those processes.

 

[Tac-O]

The other thing I was wondering... how much of a speed difference can your hold make? Would having a very light pressure into the shoulder versus a very firm shoulder pressure change the speed by 50fps?

 

[ButterBean]

haha I've seen some results like yours. What cartridge were you using it in? I have about a pound of it left. After that, I've got an 8lb keg of h4350 to go back to but am hesitant on relying on it since supply dries up at times. After my staball is gone, if I don't somehow find consistent speeds, I'm going to look into one of the less popular old standby powders like imr4350 or maybe accurate 4350 for 180gr bullets. There's also that SW4350 from powder valley... I'd like to try that out.

I tried it in 300WSM, 270 and 7STW tried it in 7-08........... He put a match to his as well, Very inconsistent and when you get close to the Max it goes way off the deep end within a couple of 10th's of a grain

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

The other thing I was wondering... how much of a speed difference can your hold make? Would having a very light pressure into the shoulder versus a very firm shoulder pressure change the speed by 50fps?

not 50 .. id guess maybe 10 because ill bet youre fairly consistent .

 

[ButterBean]

Looking at a couple comments - a question: I understand the rationale for annealing, but if my brass does not need it yet, why the regular admonition anneal after every firing? Added , neck sizing also cuts down the frequency to anneal a well. Point me to another thread if appropriate. Thx.

Yes you need to study up on annealing but that's not your problem rite now, Its the powder

 

[Tac-O]

I'm basically out of my sierra 150gr bullets. So I was thinking for my next range session, I'll probably dig into my 180gr speer boat tails or my 165gr speer hot cors. Probably the hot cors because I plan to use them for hunting and want to get to practicing with my hunting load. I'll also ditch the staball for now and start using my h4350 again. AND I have the new starline brass to start using. So, I'll basically be starting over on the next round.

I've always done my load workups with the old school method of 4 round groups at 100 yards with 0.4 grain increments. I would like to incorporate my magnetospeed but it kills me that the POI and group size changes so much with it on. I know there's TONS of ways people like to do their load workups and it varies with what distances they're shooting. I'm not planning to hunt to 700 yards (only 400-500), so ES isn't that big of a deal, but I want to be as accurate as possible and I'm a perfectionist.

So for starting my new loads, should I:
1. Just do a 25 round workup with 5 different charges, use the magetospeed for all and pick the best velocity ES/SD charge?
2. Do my load workup old school like I have been and then check the velocity ES/SD with 10 rounds?

It seems like if I went with option #1 I could end up chasing my tail on the group size.

 

[redneckdan]

I had similar results with staball and federal standard primers. I switched to winchester magnums and SD in the best part of the node are under 10fps. This is with 115 dtacs in a 6 creed.

I have had better results with superformance than with staball. I have switched to ramshot for availability and metering reasons. For load development, I would stick with weighing every charge. My high volume practice ammo is done on a dillon and I see a 100rd ES of less than .1 grain with a ramshot ball powder. It can be done but I don't think its prudent for load development.

My development process goes like this. My goal is a stable, useable load; not absolute knats bung hole accuracy. Seating length is already decided-

1)see what speeds and nodes are like. On a new combination I will run from book minimum to just over max. If I am verifying a load, say a new powder lot, I run a test spanning just below to just above the node. I load 1 round of each charge spaced .2 gr in 6 creed, .3 gr in 25-06 for example. From this plot I pick a node to try.

2) I load 5 rounds of each charge spanning the node, spaced .1gr. From this plot I can get an idea of node quality and pick an optimum charge.

3)with that optimium charge, I load 10 rounds at the predetermined seating length. I shoot 1 fouler and 3 groups of 3. If accuracy is acceptable, this is the load I settle on.

 

[338 dude]

Haha I wish! I've always wanted one.



TIR is total indicated runout. So runout of the bullet on my loaded rounds is 0.002 or less.

I stated my jump was 0.015 at about 25 rounds... now I'm at 400 rounds so maybe that's at about 0.030 now, not 0.003.

I'll measure the wall thickness of my fired brass tonight. It's winchester and I don't neck turn, so I'm sure it's not super consistent all the way around, but I didn't think it would cause an ES of 60! Maybe it could if the outliers were wayyy off?

Being that I just got this chrono, I was just testing it on a couple of the loads I knew grouped well at 100yds. I'd like to just measure velocity on every shot, but it throws my POI by 6" and opens the groups a couple inches too.

What is the black strip that looks like a watch band? Is this different than the nylon strap? Is it the additional rubber spacer? My MS sporter only came with the bayonet, screen, and two spacers.



I have a 100 pack of winchester primers I was going to try but don't have any magnum primers yet. Do you think I should skip the winchester primers even though they're the hottest regular LR primers and go straight to the magnums?

I like measuring every charge. It gives my OCD peace of mind and I double check weights and my zero constantly throughout my charging process.

There are ways to mount the bayonet other than directly to the barrel this one is from wiser precision Also there are several other makers

 

[ButterBean]

I'm basically out of my sierra 150gr bullets. So I was thinking for my next range session, I'll probably dig into my 180gr speer boat tails or my 165gr speer hot cors. Probably the hot cors because I plan to use them for hunting and want to get to practicing with my hunting load. I'll also ditch the staball for now and start using my h4350 again. AND I have the new starline brass to start using. So, I'll basically be starting over on the next round.

I've always done my load workups with the old school method of 4 round groups at 100 yards with 0.4 grain increments. I would like to incorporate my magnetospeed but it kills me that the POI and group size changes so much with it on. I know there's TONS of ways people like to do their load workups and it varies with what distances they're shooting. I'm not planning to hunt to 700 yards (only 400-500), so ES isn't that big of a deal, but I want to be as accurate as possible and I'm a perfectionist.

So for starting my new loads, should I:
1. Just do a 25 round workup with 5 different charges, use the magetospeed for all and pick the best velocity ES/SD charge?
2. Do my load workup old school like I have been and then check the velocity ES/SD with 10 rounds?

It seems like if I went with option #1 I could end up chasing my tail on the group size.

You can do it however you want but that's a lot of time wasted IMO, I load 1ea in .5gr increments shoot all of them find the cluster and work from there, don't worry about your magneto speed until you find a group or you will beat yourself to death and get no where, Just my 2 pennies worth

 

[P7M13]

I'd like to just measure velocity on every shot, but it throws my POI by 6" and opens the groups a couple inches too.

Two things: it does affect your harmonics, AND I note in my testing it opens up groups as well.
HOWEVER, if you are getting a 6" change in POI, I suspect your sensors are way too close to the bore. IIRC, the key rod was 1/4" square. You want to be at least 1/4 inch from the outside edge of the bore. I got too close to the bore once. You could see the powder burn on the stainless shield, and my POI was elevated over the target (>15"). If it wasn't for my son spotting the dust poof, we would not have known where the bullet went.

I tune loads for groups, then use the chrony to know my dope.
Ultimately, I wish I had purchased a labradar instead.

The other thing I was wondering... how much of a speed difference can your hold make? Would having a very light pressure into the shoulder versus a very firm shoulder pressure change the speed by 50fps?

Stick it in a sled, hold that baby tight.

Have you ever tried SMK 168 gr pills?

 

[Tac-O]

There are ways to mount the bayonet other than directly to the barrel this one is from wiser precision Also there are several other makers
View attachment 198017

That is on my list to get at some point.

 

[Tac-O]

You can do it however you want but that's a lot of time wasted IMO, I load 1ea in .5gr increments shoot all of them find the cluster and work from there, don't worry about your magneto speed until you find a group or you will beat yourself to death and get no where, Just my 2 pennies worth

So if I'm understanding correctly, you look for the group of charges that gives the most similar POI?