Help me understand a flyer
- Thread starter Colin78
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Canhunter35
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A ladder test will still show a node, because the holes group, but all I'm saying is tight es doesn't equal accuracy. I actually don't base a lot of es. I build my load according to acccuracy then I stretch it out and if the vertical starts to open up I either review what I did loading or try tweaking the load from there
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Do you know how far of the lands your seated? If you haven't done a seating depth test your leaving out a major early step!
OFFISHN
Well-Known Member
Scope! As good as you may have. I have had this same thing never expecting my high dollar scope to be the issue. After 500 rounds down range I sent it back to the manufacturer who eventually returned it to me with the repairs made. All thou there repair record was vag at best.
esshup
Well-Known Member
One other thing I would do is when you have the flyer, mark that piece of brass and set it aside. Revisit that group with 5 pieces of brass that you know shot well, and see if the flyer returns. Don't change anything else. If the flyer shows up again with brass that shot well before, then you know it's not the brass. I also agree that the 210 primer would be a better fit.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Flyers can be caused many things, You already have the tools to narrow it down. (The Chronograph).
If you shoot 3 to 5 of the same load through it the flyers will show themselves with velocity changes. The SD is the clue. If you have good SD's, you should not have flyers unless there is something wrong with your loading procedure. SD's tell you if you have a good powder, bullet weight, primer, and consistent case capacity and are getting a good ignition and burn.
It doesn't control accuracy at the target because that depends on the quality of the bullet and the loading quality.
If I get great SD's (Normally Under .06) and get poor accuracy I look at different bullets in the same weight (To prevent changing the SD's) and do the things mentioned in other post. Bullet quality, seating depth, Case prep and concentricity.
Flyers are caused by inconsistent or incompatible components normally. The other reason, (the one that no one wants to believe) is the shooter. If you have shot a lot, You can learn to call your shots when it breaks, and know where it will hit before it actually does. This really helps when you are having a bad day to know that it is not the load or the rifle.
Analyze your data, and look for trends in the flyers, They are there if you look. and don't forget your self in the equation. No one shoots there best every time.
J E CUSTOM
Is this flyer always on the first shot? I had a similar issue with an out of the box new Rem700 in 1970. One of the action screws through the stock would loosen up somehow after a shooting session setting in the safe. The first shot made it seat where it was happy and the rest of the group was fine. A drop of blue loctite cured the problem and has lasted since 1970.
JE I agree with you about 95% of the time but on this one I dont. Please dont take it the wrong way, I've had flyers that showed nothing because velocity.
Majority of the time for me it's a primer or powder
Case in point no matter what I did with RL26 in my first test with a 280Ai and the new Alliant powders I had to switch to RL23.
Colin78
Well-Known Member
Yes 100 thou from lands.
CBTO is 2.177
COAL is 2.910
Much farther out and I will have mag length issues.
Colin78
Well-Known Member
Don't think it's the scope. I have a couple other loads this rifle shoots lights out.
Single feed a group .010 off and see where that gets you.
azsugarbear
Well-Known Member
As I read through all the posts, I couldn't find any mention of how many rounds of the same charge you fired at different targets. My understanding has always been that you fire the same charge at three different targets. This procedure tends to help eliminate the 'human' element. Any shooter is subject to pulling or flinching on a single shot.
If you shot a single target for a ladder test and found that charges 5 & 6 were touching, you may have found a node....or shots 5 & 6 were simply close/touching because of shooter ambiguities. A second or third target shot in the same manner at the same time would either confirm the node, or reveal a better node. Good Luck to you in your quest.
If you shot a single target for a ladder test and found that charges 5 & 6 were touching, you may have found a node....or shots 5 & 6 were simply close/touching because of shooter ambiguities. A second or third target shot in the same manner at the same time would either confirm the node, or reveal a better node. Good Luck to you in your quest.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Seating depth tuning is critical regardless of where your mag is, if you have to start at that length do the same as if you can reach the lands, you still bring it back into a node most likely. I don't do anything with powder till I have a course seating depth found because seat depth will completely change the groups.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Don't worry I dont.
Finding a good,accurate load is a process of elimination and using SD's from a chronograph that is impartial is just the way that I start to eliminate things that effect accuracy. I use to try Hit and miss tactics and spent lots of time and components in the search and decided to take the approach that I now use, and it has done well for me. There will always be something that screws up your efforts, and you just have to look for it.
I have found that if I have a flyer and still have good SD's I first look at the bullet.
If I have good accuracy and poor SD's I look at the choice of primer first, then the powder to find out why they are working well together. Again. the SD's only tell me that it is a good combination for the burn rate in a case volume. It still doesn't tell me what the barrel likes as far as harmonics and velocity.
If I feel I have to change powders to find the "Node" I make the the change and first test the load through a chronograph to keep from wasting time and components. there will always be the exception and how a person approaches finding Is what has worked best for him.
Just the way I do Load development
J E CUSTOM
