Heavy for caliber vs. high velocity monos

[troupe]

When I left the BT's, I switched to the 140 partitions. Accuracy was not as good, but they were like grenades. Nothing walked when I done my part. Not knocking the BT's because they worked when distance was a little further. But where I was lucky enough to hunt in W.Va. , a good buck could pop up at 15 yds or on another hillside. Just never knew where or when. I was using a 7 STW.

 

[ButterBean]

I have also been torn between a fast mono and a heavy high BC bullet, and have kindof been trying to have a gun for each, to have options for different hunting scenarios. If I might be hunting a long road where I wouldn't have time to range and dial, a super fast mono would be great for anything that steps out inside about 400 yards. If I might be hunting in the open where I would have time to range and dial, then the heavy lead would be a nice option.
In reality, most of my shots are 300 and in, and a high BC bullet is not needed, even for the occasional 500 yard shot. But I also like knowing that I am not going to be limited by my bullet in the rare occasion that a 1000 yard shot presents itself.

The struggle is real

 

[SammySTW]

At the end of this season, I went out to shoot some does and took my 7 STW with some 180 ELDMs and some 143 Hammers. I was zeroed for the 180s, and knew the correction to make for the 143s, and it was my first time hunting with either of those bullets. Shot a doe with the 180 ELDM at about 300 yards, and shot 2 hogs at about 200 with the 143. I messed up on the elevation correction for the 143 and hit high, but everything still died instantly. No conclusion to which bullet was better

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

At the end of this season, I went out to shoot some does and took my 7 STW with some 180 ELDMs and some 143 Hammers. I was zeroed for the 180s, and knew the correction to make for the 143s, and it was my first time hunting with either of those bullets. Shot a doe with the 180 ELDM at about 300 yards, and shot 2 hogs at about 200 with the 143. I messed up on the elevation correction for the 143 and hit high, but everything still died instantly. No conclusion to which bullet was better

In my experience the eld-m is a heck of a killer. Haven't had anything get away from a eld-m yet.

 

[gator378]

I am glad to see that I am not they only one who enjoys this type of shooting. When ever I have contributed to a post or thread about this style of loading and shooting it seems to fall flat. Oh well I shoot and load over 40 different calibers all over 4000fps except for one my 308 which is maxed out @3800fps with a full case of 4198. Not for lack of trying.LOL

Dean

Must be Army tanker guys. The M1 120mm about 5000fps at muzzle. Must be fun to shoot that gun

 

[skipglo]

I have a very good friend who has tested tons of stuff and killed a ungodly amount of critters with about everything you can imagine and his go to rifle right now is the 300RUM with the 124 Hammer Hunter

Yea.....what BEAN said!

 

[skipglo]

Not looking for a this is better than that fight, more interested in why you like and what success you've had with heavy for caliber/high BC bullets vs. high velocity solids. I'm sure quite a few folks run both and it would be interesting to hear why you selected a particular option for a particular rifle/cartridge.

Full disclosure I run primarily heavy for caliber Berger's and recently worked up a great load in a short barrel (18") .308 with the 151 Absolute Hammer. It was shooting so well my neighbor wore me out until I sold him the rifle so I didn't have the chance to take any game with it.

I'm going back to SPEED VS NEED myself. Back from 212 and 208 in 300 Bee to 150-165 gr.....just me!

 

[Starlite]

Since I won a Winchester 270 last fall I've been converted to light higher velocity monolithic pills. I'm running a stock (less triggertech) Savage axis II Overwatch with 20" barrel that happens to be a tac driver with the 110gr TTSX. This rifle and bullet has dropped Two coyotes, one buck WTD and one medium sized black bear. All were DRT with one shot. There's always a situation for heavy pills but I've come to realize that this situation no longer exist for me here in the north east of Canada. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to drop a large bull moose here either.

 

[jfloyd]

At the end of this season, I went out to shoot some does and took my 7 STW with some 180 ELDMs and some 143 Hammers. I was zeroed for the 180s, and knew the correction to make for the 143s, and it was my first time hunting with either of those bullets. Shot a doe with the 180 ELDM at about 300 yards, and shot 2 hogs at about 200 with the 143. I messed up on the elevation correction for the 143 and hit high, but everything still died instantly. No conclusion to which bullet was better

That's easy! You need to bring your micrometer with you to measure which one is deader.

 

[dougduey]

At the end of this season, I went out to shoot some does and took my 7 STW with some 180 ELDMs and some 143 Hammers. I was zeroed for the 180s, and knew the correction to make for the 143s, and it was my first time hunting with either of those bullets. Shot a doe with the 180 ELDM at about 300 yards, and shot 2 hogs at about 200 with the 143. I messed up on the elevation correction for the 143 and hit high, but everything still died instantly. No conclusion to which bullet was better

The jacket on the ELDM is thinner than the ELDX. Once you get past about 200 yards, the ELDM is "out of the woods" on possible bullet blow up. When you have a close shot with the ELDM you don't want to hit bone, so aim for rear lungs and you'll be fine. Or, just shoot Hammer bullets and don't worry about bullet blow up.

 

[codyadams]

I have always wondered about one thing when firing into a cross wind, So lets say I fire a round at a target into a 20mph cross wind at 2500fps depending on the weight and BC it will deviate a certain amount. What if I send the same bullet at 3500fps will the deviate the same amount, and then what if I send it 4500fps still the same amount? that makes no sense certainly a bullet "Charging the wind" will be less afected than "Sailing along" my take is something that spends less time in the wind will be less affected by the wind. the time of flight is so short how could it possibly, I have never taken into acount a cross wind when firing at a target and there never been a shot where I though, "I should have added some windage" so there has to be something to that since I rarely send anything less than 4000fps. Mind you this all happen's at less than 400yrd.

Dean

At less than 400 yards, it absolutely makes more sense to go lighter and faster. This concept actually occurred and was demonstrated to me when I was a little kid, and it went like this....

I played around with a wrist rocket a ton, and I would shoot whatever I picked up off the ground or could find laying around, and I would often grab a pocket full of dog food and shoot the kibbles at stuff, it was plentiful and worked. We had an old beat up aluminum shed that I painted a small dot on for target practice, made a loud bang when you hit it that I loved! Shooting the dog food at it was cool, at about 10 yards it was flying super fast, would almost always smack where I was aiming, and would then shatter into a bunch of pieces. The dog food was awesome for shooting at grasshoppers and stuff like that I could get close to, and wouldn't damage the skirting around our mobile home (where the grasshoppers would often hang out). But shooting at that same dot at 20, 30, or especially 40+ yards, the dog food was almost useless if there was much wind. So if I was shooting farther than 10 yards or so, I had rocks in my other pocket pretty close to the same size. I had to be more careful what I shot rocks at as they would do more damage and retain energy better, and wind did very little to them. They were reserved for the elusive english sparrows and starlings, in locations that had a safe backstop or just pasture behind them. I probably lobbed hundreds of rocks at those birds, and eventually I did get one English sparrow, but it was mostly futile attempts.

Though this is a slightly exaggerated example, it tought me something that applied directly to rifles, but was just scaled up a lot. In general*, Inside 500ish yards, there is really not anything ballistically to gain from a heavy slower bullet. Wind drift will not be noticeably different, energy will be more than sufficient for either, and the light bullet will have less drop. But if past 500-600 and out to over 1000 is where you generally live, the heavier higher bc bullets will outperform. At those ranges, you will have to adjust elevation for even the lightest and fastest bullets anyway, what is a few more clicks? And the real challenger, the windage, is where you will see less adjustment or hold off needed for the heavier high bc bullets. And also, very often I see the heavier bullets catch the lighter ones in speed, taking away any advantage they might have had. It might not be until 1000 yards or farther, but people do shoot that far, and any advantage at those ranges are welcome.

Bottom line, I step back and look at what a rifle will be used for. My brush, sub 400 usually guns use light fast bullets. My long guns do not. Would you put racing slicks on your 4wd hunting truck? Would you but gnarly mt's on your Shelby mustang? One answer is not correct for all, so use what works for your situation and stack that protein!!

Sorry for the novel, I had nothing better to do ha ha!

 

[SammySTW]

The jacket on the ELDM is thinner than the ELDX. Once you get past about 200 yards, the ELDM is "out of the woods" on possible bullet blow up. When you have a close shot with the ELDM you don't want to hit bone, so aim for rear lungs and you'll be fine. Or, just shoot Hammer bullets and don't worry about bullet blow up.

I shot a buck this year with a 162 ELDM out of my 280 AI, about 2960 at the muzzle, 170 yard shot and put it high-center shoulder. Buck dropped, bullet remains were just under the skin on the far side

 

[esshup]

After having bullet performance that wasn't to my liking from my .257 Wby, I started to use mono copper bullets. Same for my .243.

BUT, my question to everyone that shoots mono's at game is this: At what impact velocity do you say "that's not enough fps @ impact to make the bullet expand enough"? I know Barnes is right around 1,900 fps impact speed, what about the other mono bullets out there? I use Barnes in my .243 and don't plan on shooting it past 300 yds on game (85g TSX @ 3250 fps mv). I use the .243 for whitetails, and I could have them at 20 yds or 200 yds.

 

[memtb]

After having bullet performance that wasn't to my liking from my .257 Wby, I started to use mono copper bullets. Same for my .243.

BUT, my question to everyone that shoots mono's at game is this: At what impact velocity do you say "that's not enough fps @ impact to make the bullet expand enough"? I know Barnes is right around 1,900 fps impact speed, what about the other mono bullets out there? I use Barnes in my .243 and don't plan on shooting it past 300 yds on game (85g TSX @ 3250 fps mv). I use the .243 for whitetails, and I could have them at 20 yds or 200 yds.

Personally I've never tested them at extreme ranges on game. However, according to Barnes.....the LRX is "supposed" to open down to 1700 fps. I do not think they mean complete expansion! However, with a "hot rod" cartridge, and the fairly high BC's of the LRX......I think it would offer good performance a pretty darn long way down range. Farther than many of us (myself included) should be shooting at game!

Your description of the ranges of possible shots, is the very reason I use Barnes Bullets. I want a bullet that will perform very good at point blank range. So, I determine at what distance I am no longer assured adequate expansion.....that will be my maximum range for shots taken! Most of my shots are inside of 400 yards, and some measuring in feet..... I want my bullet to remain intact, not fragment! memtb