Hammer bullet for short range bear hunting

[RockyMtnMT]

Gotta love it when people who have never used Hammer Bullets claim to know how they work.

I don't think I would go heavier than the 150g Power Hammer. The 130g Shock Hammer would be a great choice. Really no wrong answer here. I think if I were loading for this hunt I would run the 137g Hammer Hunter.

 

[nralifer]

I'm going to book a hunt to Saskatchewan for this summer and I intend to shoot a 308 win. The shots will be short distance, but I'm wanting really good bullet performance. Does anyone have any experience with any of the heavies in that class that will fly properly out of a 1:10 twist barrel?
I'm thinking one of those more blunt profiles would be perfectly suited for this but looking for someone with experience with them. Thanks

Well here is my actual experience using a 308Win 20" carbon barrel shooting a 150 gr Badlands Precision 150 gr BD at 2920 fps on a 600 lbs Alaskan Coastal Black Bear. Bear was walking away through tall grass at a 25-30 degree angle from me. I could see him though a 10" or so hole in the grass. Had to estimate where his chest was and hit him at 175 yds quartering. We recovered the bullet under the hide on the opposite left side at the base of the neck. Estimated penetration was 30-32" diagonally through the chest with entrance hole at about 1" back of the right rib cage. Bullet still had all the petals but 1/2 of them had cracked close to the base, so the petals were fully deployed though out the bullet travel. He took one step and dropped, bleeding from his nose as he fell. We caped and quartered him. Did not open the chest. Guide, who refused to let people use other copper bullets was very impressed. Pics show the Bear and the bullet, and location on a chart where the hunt took place. The third pic is the old avalanche site we got the Bear in about 2/3 up from the water level. We were about 1 mile downstream from a glacier.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Well here is my actual experience using a 308Win 20" carbon barrel shooting a 150 gr Badlands Precision 150 gr BD at 2920 fps on a 600 lbs Alaskan Coastal Black Bear. Bear was walking away through tall grass at a 25-30 degree angle from me. I could see him though a 10" or so hole in the grass. Had to estimate where his chest was and hit him at 175 yds quartering. We recovered the bullet under the hide on the opposite left side at the base of the neck. Estimated penetration was 30-32" diagonally through the chest with entrance hole at about 1" back of the right rib cage. Bullet still had all the petals but 1/2 of them had cracked close to the base, so the petals were fully deployed though out the bullet travel. He took one step and dropped, bleeding from his nose as he fell. We caped and quartered him. Did not open the chest. Guide, who refused to let people use other copper bullets was very impressed. Pics show the Bear and the bullet, and location on a chart where the hunt took place. The third pic is the old avalanche site we got the Bear in about 2/3 up from the water level. We were about 1 mile downstream from a glacier.

If I saw a Hammer Bullet look like that after a mid 2000's fps impact I would be very concerned about the quality of my copper. Maybe it is just the tip inhibiting the expansion.

 

[nralifer]

If I saw a Hammer Bullet look like that after a mid 2000's fps impact I would be very concerned about the quality of my copper. Maybe it is just the tip inhibiting the expansion.

Re-read the post. Half the petals were cracked. I lost them when we were quartering the animal. The bullet penetrated 30-32" with fully deployed petals. Bear dropped immediately. There is nothing wrong with the ductility of the copper. As far as tips inhibiting expansion, we have no evidence that that is a significant phenomenon with our tips either in gel or in the field. With plastic tips I have seen it first hand on a hunt. Pure speculation on your part. 10% gel is calibrated using a BB going 590 fps+- 30 fps and should penetrate 3.4" in 10% gel. How much penetration are you going to get from that BB in a Deer? Our tips, at those impact velocities, are ejected from the bullet with in 2" of penetration of 10% gel, a much more stringent test of expansion than in animals with hides, bone and muscle. The superior penetration of our bullets makes quartering shots though the chest very lethal because it dramatically improves the probability of tearing either the aorta, vena cava, pulmonary artery, heart and guarantees perforation and lethal damage to both lungs.

 

[nralifer]

If I saw a Hammer Bullet look like that after a mid 2000's fps impact I would be very concerned about the quality of my copper. Maybe it is just the tip inhibiting the expansion.

That was a first generation bullet. Here is what the .308 150 gr BD2 does in 10% gel

 

[Koda_]

I dont think at close range it would matter much what bullet you use, but given the short range you could consider the 143g Lever Hammer should give the most instant expansion with penetration.

.308 Cal-143gr Lever Hammer - Hammer Bullets

This bullet is designed specifically for 30-30 lever action rifles with tube feed magazine. It will also work very well in any 30 caliber rifle. Recommended min twist rate is 1-14" or faster Bullet length is 1.053" Bullet weight is 140gr Recommended use: Big game hunting G1-BC= .287

hammerbullets.com

 

[HARPERC]

I dont think at close range it would matter much what bullet you use, but given the short range you could consider the 143g Lever Hammer should give the most instant expansion with penetration.

.308 Cal-143gr Lever Hammer - Hammer Bullets

This bullet is designed specifically for 30-30 lever action rifles with tube feed magazine. It will also work very well in any 30 caliber rifle. Recommended min twist rate is 1-14" or faster Bullet length is 1.053" Bullet weight is 140gr Recommended use: Big game hunting G1-BC= .287

hammerbullets.com

Many good choices this would be mine. 3000 fps should be achievable.

 

[nralifer]

I dont think at close range it would matter much what bullet you use, but given the short range you could consider the 143g Lever Hammer should give the most instant expansion with penetration.

.308 Cal-143gr Lever Hammer - Hammer Bullets

This bullet is designed specifically for 30-30 lever action rifles with tube feed magazine. It will also work very well in any 30 caliber rifle. Recommended min twist rate is 1-14" or faster Bullet length is 1.053" Bullet weight is 140gr Recommended use: Big game hunting G1-BC= .287

hammerbullets.com

I think that at close range high velocity is not a good thing for lead core bullets. Quartering shots are even worse for this type of bullet. In hunting one may anticipate short range shots, but it is largely up to the animal and hunting technique. Hunting over bait is one way of knowing your range, but if you are hunting on foot or a boat then foot, as I did in Alaska, the range you decide to engage is variable. In any case deep penetrating bullets are a must that allow multiple angles of impact with deep reliable expanded penetration at any angle. Bulldozers were designed for this purpose.

 

[HARPERC]

I think that at close range high velocity is not a good thing for lead core bullets.

I tend to agree, but wasn't sure if you were just making the statement, or if you aren't aware the Hammer isn't lead core.

 

[nralifer]

I tend to agree, but wasn't sure if you were just making the statement, or if you aren't aware the Hammer isn't lead core.

I know Hammers are copper, but a different alloy than we use.

 

[Koda_]

I think that at close range high velocity is not a good thing for lead core bullets. Quartering shots are even worse for this type of bullet. In hunting one may anticipate short range shots, but it is largely up to the animal and hunting technique. Hunting over bait is one way of knowing your range, but if you are hunting on foot or a boat then foot, as I did in Alaska, the range you decide to engage is variable. In any case deep penetrating bullets are a must that allow multiple angles of impact with deep reliable expanded penetration at any angle. Bulldozers were designed for this purpose.

I'm not following, the bullets I suggested don't have any lead in them. The OP stated short range work and asked for a Hammer bullet. Hes obviously a Hammer fan and I trust he knows his hunt will be short range.
My guess is you own or rep for Badlands? I like the looks of them they look like a great product Id like to try myself, but the OP asked for a Hammer suggestion so Im staying on topic.

 

[nralifer]

I'm not following, the bullets I suggested don't have any lead in them. The OP stated short range work and asked for a Hammer bullet. Hes obviously a Hammer fan and I trust he knows his hunt will be short range.
My guess is you own or rep for Badlands? I like the looks of them they look like a great product Id like to try myself, but the OP asked for a Hammer suggestion so Im staying on topic.

Just wanted to point out that the hunt he was describing was very similar to the one that I did with the same caliber rifle as he specified. What he uses is up to him. Also you mentioned that at close range it mattered little what bullet he used. My comment about lead core bullets fired at close range in quartering shots indicates that such bullets can be very disappointing. Same thing with copper bullets that don't expand reliably. Not saying that Hammers have that problem. Never used them, but I know for sure other copper bullets have that problem because I have experienced it first hand.

 

[RockyMtnUT]

Re-read the post. Half the petals were cracked. I lost them when we were quartering the animal. The bullet penetrated 30-32" with fully deployed petals. Bear dropped immediately. There is nothing wrong with the ductility of the copper. As far as tips inhibiting expansion, we have no evidence that that is a significant phenomenon with our tips either in gel or in the field. With plastic tips I have seen it first hand on a hunt. Pure speculation on your part. 10% gel is calibrated using a BB going 590 fps+- 30 fps and should penetrate 3.4" in 10% gel. How much penetration are you going to get from that BB in a Deer? Our tips, at those impact velocities, are ejected from the bullet with in 2" of penetration of 10% gel, a much more stringent test of expansion than in animals with hides, bone and muscle. The superior penetration of our bullets makes quartering shots though the chest very lethal because it dramatically improves the probability of tearing either the aorta, vena cava, pulmonary artery, heart and guarantees perforation and lethal damage to both lungs.

Just don't worry about it. Great bear.

For the op, your shot will generally be 25ft to 50ft away from most bears I've seen killed there. All sizes and calibers used from 22 LR behind the ear to 45-70.

Where in Saskatchewan?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

That was a first generation bullet. Here is what the .308 150 gr BD2 does in 10% gel

Your first generation looks better than the second generation. This will lead to increased failures to open, poor straight line penetration, bone deflection, and tumbling after impact. Broaching the hard copper won't help these things.