gen 1 vs gen 2 bergers

[bman73]

Have been shooting the gen 2 OTM 300 grain hybrids out of my .338 lapua out as far as 1150 yards with very pleasing success so far. Even have taken an cow elk and a nice black bear with them (373 on the elk and 469 on the bear) I have 180 of the gen 1's that I think I'm going to start loading and was wondering if any one else has shot the two of them for a comparison as to POI? I'm only shooting out of a 110 BA with a MV of 2750 so the issues people were originally having with them coming apart shouldn't be a problem for me as I'm no where near the velocity that the problems seemed to happen. I'm using 91 grains of H-1000, Lapua brass and 215 primers. Thanks in advance

 

[Broz]

In my 338 LM with 92.5 gr of H-1000 and a 215 in Lapua brass both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 OTM 300 gr Hybrid shot the same. But for sure and confidence sake I would check zero and send one or two to 700 plus to be sure.

Jeff

 

[bman73]

was planning on trying them all the way out to my current limit of 1150 before I tried them on anything I plan on putting in the freezer, was just curious as to what I could expect more than anything. Have only second hand knowledge of them, just been sitting in my gun room looking sad and left out since I got them a couple years ago now. Have a large supply of the gen 2's and have been shooting them exclusively. Thanks for the info

 

[idaho elk hunter]

I have had horrible luck with all gen1 338 Bergers when pushed really hard. I am running the 300 at 3275 and they would not hold a 12 inch group at 100. The 2nd gen when jammed into the lands will hold a 2.5 in at 100. All horrible but it does show that you better try them out first. The gen 1 did have a slump issue that was supposedly addressed by the 2nd gen. What is amazing is ALL of my freebored rifles (Weatherby) shoot better with the harder bullets. None of the thin skinned jackets shoot that well including the famed Berger.

 

[bigngreen]

I have had horrible luck with all gen1 338 Bergers when pushed really hard. I am running the 300 at 3275 and they would not hold a 12 inch group at 100. The 2nd gen when jammed into the lands will hold a 2.5 in at 100. All horrible but it does show that you better try them out first. The gen 1 did have a slump issue that was supposedly addressed by the 2nd gen. What is amazing is ALL of my freebored rifles (Weatherby) shoot better with the harder bullets. None of the thin skinned jackets shoot that well including the famed Berger.

Sounds like a weak link between the stock and trigger!!
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[Broz]

Here is an old pic I dug up from load development of the very first lot of Gen 1 300 gr bergers. Even before the BC was corrected to .818

Mirage was bad, 500 yards 4 went just under 1/4 moa the one out of group took the 5 shot group to just over 1/2 moa.

I shot and tested over 250 of these in a 10 twist around 2800 fps with not one failure.

But then it was a 338 Lapua..

 

[idaho elk hunter]

Sounds like a weak link between the stock and trigger!!

I can totally agree with the link between the stock and trigger is getting a lot weaker! I have been shooting and loading longer than most people have been alive on this forum. But that does not justify the 12 inch to 2.5 inch groups. I might add the same shooter with the same rifle, powder etc will shoot the 265 gr Barnes into .35!!

 

[bman73]

Pretty sure I wont run into that kind of an issue with the velocity I'm shooting at. Don't have enough life insurance to even try driving those out at any where near that kind of speed with my current rig! lol Thanks for the info though, havnt heard from too many people that got to try these at lower speeds like mine. They were pulled and redesigned fairly quickly when the guys started noticing how poorly they worked when pushed that hard.

 

[bman73]

Here is an old pic I dug up from load development of the very first lot of Gen 1 300 gr bergers. Even before the BC was corrected to .818

Mirage was bad, 500 yards 4 went just under 1/4 moa the one out of group took the 5 shot group to just over 1/2 moa.

I shot and tested over 250 of these in a 10 twist around 2800 fps with not one failure.

But then it was a 338 Lapua..

Nothing wrong with that group at all. If I can get even close to that I'll be pretty dam happy

 

[idaho elk hunter]

Pretty sure I wont run into that kind of an issue with the velocity I'm shooting at. Don't have enough life insurance to even try driving those out at any where near that kind of speed with my current rig! lol Thanks for the info though, havnt heard from too many people that got to try these at lower speeds like mine. They were pulled and redesigned fairly quickly when the guys started noticing how poorly they worked when pushed that hard.

You can not get the velocities I am getting with the case capacity that you have. The only way to get there is a 338-378 Weatherby with RL 25 or one of the Chey-Tac derivatives.
These cartridges, I personally believe are the reason for the gen 2. I have never downloaded mine to lower velocities but would be willing to bet that at 2900 the slump problem would go away. By the way I was not the one that figured out the slump being the problem, Berger was.
I have read of some people doing the Lapua into a improved version and Broz doing a personal version called a improved+P to even higher velocities. I do not know how hard they pushed them in their modified chamberings. It would be interesting if they could chime in and tell us the velocities they were getting. And what difficulties they experienced.

 

[sp6x6]

This picture is of my range book,have one for each rifle. Pretty sure this was gen 1 at 2750 out of my norma